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Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by einrealist on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @07:43PM (#42941707)
The process is the problem. There is no oversight and accountability for Musk and his "DOGE". That's pure poison to Democracy and to a functioning society.

Musk is neither competent nor efficient. He looks at line items and makes stuff up. He destroys a hundred useful things to destroy a bad one. Details don't matter to him. Its the same con man mentality that feeds off the works of his workforce. People who think he is a genius are gullible.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @08:49PM (#42942460)
Can you give specific examples to back up your comments about Musk? I am quite gullible otherwise.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by einrealist on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @02:56AM (#42945382)
- He claimed the US funded bio-weapons when they found payments for gain of function research.

- Calling payments to non-profit organizations fraudulent on a whim.

- The sweeping condemnation of what USAID was doing.

- His call for a blanket drop of regulations.

Either he knows better or he is totally lost in his sauce. Hard to say what's worse for where he is right now.

I believe, he does not care. He only cares about his conception of the world and how AI and Mars are more important than those tiny tiny human problems. Society has to serve him and his god complex. He was told to find his subsidies and tax cuts by himself. That's what he is doing.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @12:56PM (#42952442)
Evidence is being presented in real-time on X for each of the things you mentioned. Suggest you do some homework instead of gleaning headlines from old media, who btw, was getting money from USAID - the latest series of evidence coming out on X today.

You really need to take a hard look at who is gullible here.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by yibg on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @01:18PM (#42952802)
Can you point me to some of the evidence being presented? I know elon's been posting claims of fraud and abuse, but I'm only seen his claims, without any evidence.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @01:36PM (#42953059)
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by yibg on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @03:51PM (#42954925)
Thanks for the info, I'll read into it more.

EDIT to make my current position clear, I do think there is probably waste in various government agencies. My objection with the current approach is mainly 2 folds:

1. The lack of transparency and accountability

2. Some of the statements from the administration that are false or misleading. e.g. the 50 million on condoms.

The 2 combined makes it difficult to have trust on what's happening.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by einrealist on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @05:28PM (#42956243)
There is ZERO context in those Tweets. Only showing a line item, with a dense description is NOT evidence for fraud. Its like if I were looking at your bank transactions and assuming the worst.

Don't get me wrong. There is certainly fraud and overpayment happening in government operations. But just looking at receipts is not the smoking gun. If anyone suspects fraud, there are a processes. Inspectors Generals are (were) one way to have those payments investigated, DOJ and FBI would be another step. The IGs were fired last week. I wonder why...

Also, this "Ian Miles Cheong" guy is literally a Kremlin operative - really someone worth blocking. So that's important to know about his motivations to sow doubt in US Democracy.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by einrealist on Thursday February 06, 2025 @03:31PM (#42966203)
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Friday February 07, 2025 @07:22PM (#42979063)
There is no fraud that can be proven!

NIH Official account is saying last year $9B of the $35B in grant money was for "administrative overhead". Not fraud. But does that sound reasonable to you??

https://x.com/NIH/status/1888004759396958263

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by einrealist on Saturday February 08, 2025 @09:07AM (#42983027)
Fraud can be proven. But its a process and its not as easy than just claiming something to be fraud. We (hopefully still) have a justice system, with due process for the same reason.

That $9B is just a number. Whether it is reasonable or not can only be determined by looking into the details:

- What accounts as overhead?

- What were decisions that lead to that overhead?

- Were there alternatives that would have costs less?

- Why and how were those decisions made?

- Can we learn for future decisions?

- Was there actual fraud?

- When there was fraud, why wasn't it referred to DOJ to be investigated properly?

"Administrative overhead" is not bad by itself. Outside government, its simply called "Operating Expense" and "Cost of Revenue" (not a concern of government luckily). I am certain, if you look into SpaceX' or Tesla's expenses, you would find fraud too.

Because Musk and his brainwashed followers can claim stuff on Twitter doesn't make it true. And it certainly MUST NOT be basis to destroy Democracy and democratic processes.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Saturday February 08, 2025 @07:36PM (#42987454)
and what basis are you claiming destruction of democracy on? And why don't you sit down to answer your own questions?
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Friday February 14, 2025 @01:08PM (#43051207)
Because hes not arguing in good faith for the truth of the matter. Even if you posted that someone was getting all 9billion of that administrative budget as salary; the next argument would be " ah that employee is worth 9billion no fraud here". The standard of proof hes looking for is likely a direct admission of guilt and intent lol.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Saturday February 08, 2025 @07:59PM (#42987567)
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Friday February 14, 2025 @04:33PM (#43053296)
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Friday February 14, 2025 @04:32PM (#43053286)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/usaid-payments-to-politico...

> The above claim was false. Publicly available records showed that in 2023 and 2024, the USAID paid a total of $44,000 — not $8 million — to Politico, and the payments were earmarked for institutional subscriptions to E&E News, a Politico publication. No other transactions between USAID and Politico were listed for the entire previous decade.

Nice, how much are you getting to propagandize?

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Friday February 14, 2025 @01:00PM (#43051118)
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by sirbutters on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @01:43PM (#42953166)
Bro gets his news from X. hahahahaha. Adorable.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by justanotheratom on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @01:56PM (#42953361)
where do you get your "curated" news sir?
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Friday February 14, 2025 @01:00PM (#43051114)
>- He claimed the US funded bio-weapons when they found payments for gain of function research.

This is factual though.

The previous NIH director Dr. Hugh Auchincloss and current deputy director Dr. Lawrence Tabak agree that the definition of "gain of function" as was listed on the NIH website applies to engineering a biological agent to infect something it normally wouldnt be able to.

That coupled with the fact that Dr.Daszak submitted the Year 5 Annual Progress Report Nearly Two Years Late. Said report had the experiment with infected transgenic mice with four different coronaviruses, three of which were chimera or recombinant viruses with different spike proteins.

When confronted in the deposition Daszak said that the reporting system was inaccessible. So they deposed the IT stack of the reporting system, and they showed logs that it was accessible and actually logged into several times during the 2 year period that the report was late.

This is pretty strong circumstantial evidence that they were attempting to hide or delay the experiments from being discovered by the grant review process at the end of the year. The report is pretty damning.

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04...

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by pizlonator on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @09:33PM (#42942907)
His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry.

It’s just that government isn’t that.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by frickinLasers on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @10:43PM (#42943440)
> His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry.

Or are his companies successful despite that? The impression I get is that his direct reports are exceptionally good managers and shield the companies from his dumbest moves. Except at Twitter--that's lost, what, 75% of its value? (still works as a political platform for him though)

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by Vilian on Tuesday February 04, 2025 @11:33PM (#42943837)
Considering that twitter never profited since he took over, nah
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by ganoushoreilly on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @11:13AM (#42950617)
"Twitter" wasn't profitable when he bought it so I'm not sure this is a fair comparison.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by pizlonator on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @12:01AM (#42944013)
That’s exactly what I mean by manage by trolling. He forces his directs to be good by trolling them with idiotic ideas.

I don’t condone manage by trolling; it’s not how I want to manage or be managed. But it seems to have worked out for his industrial complex.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by jhloa2 on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @12:28AM (#42944220)
So he fosters competence with his incompetence? Seems like it would work just as well without him except for marketing. I'm impressed with Tesla and SpaceX as a whole, but from what I've heard, he hasn't been heavily involved with day to day decisions for more than a decade. From my perspective, his role is to be a hype man that consistently over promises and under delivers.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by CamperBob2 on Thursday February 06, 2025 @12:23AM (#42959363)
Musk specializes at succeeding in fields where nobody else is seriously trying. He's never actually faced good old-fashioned market competition.

He's good at identifying ideas whose time has come, I'll give him that much credit. Ransacking the US Treasury wasn't on the radar, though, as far as I could see.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by ModernMech on Friday February 07, 2025 @12:09PM (#42974998)
"He's never actually faced good old-fashioned market competition."

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/03/scaling-waymo-one-safely-acro...

Note the date. Tesla still doesn't have a taxi.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by CamperBob2 on Friday February 07, 2025 @12:22PM (#42975120)
Waymo is doing good work but it's still very much a science-fair project, just another side hobby of Larry and Sergey.

Self-driving taxis will be a "market" someday, but not yet, and when they are, there is no reason to think Musk will be a force to be reckoned with. (Well, no reason other than the regulatory capture that he's no doubt putting into place now, that is.)

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by fragmede on Friday February 07, 2025 @12:45PM (#42975374)
https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/year-in-review-2024

from their blog that GP linked to, which says they gave 4 million rides in 2024, which seems like more than a "science faire side project", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by CamperBob2 on Saturday February 08, 2025 @02:04AM (#42981068)
It means it's not the least bit responsive to my assertion that Musk has never faced any serious market competition.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by ModernMech on Saturday February 08, 2025 @11:16PM (#42988401)
How so? I can give Waymo money and they send a driverless taxi to pick me up in SF. That's a market. Can't do the same for Tesla despite Musk saying they'd have robotaxis for years now, they're so far behind they're not even an option. How do you reconcile that with what you're saying here?
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by CamperBob2 on Sunday February 09, 2025 @12:20AM (#42988664)
I can reconcile it by saying that I don't think he cares. He's being outcompeted in the self-driving taxi business, such as it is, but he has taken his eye off of that particular ball completely. People forget that he owns less than 20% of Tesla at this point.

If he does manage to outcompete Waymo, my guess is that it will be because he hosed them via regulatory capture somehow, thanks to his buddy in the White House. Or because Larry and Sergey got bored and folded their tent.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by cbracketdash on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @03:04AM (#42945455)
It's easy to dismiss eccentric people as conmen. But you have to consider, he has been at least partially instrumental in at least 2 impossible companies: electric cars and rockets.

Regardless of what you think of his intellectual capacity, he has a proven track record of organizing people to produce exceptional outcomes !

An inevitable characteristic of his algorithm is chaos: delete as many constraints and parts as possible. When things break, re-add those necessary parts.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by squigz on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @09:34AM (#42948984)
> An inevitable characteristic of his algorithm is chaos: delete as many constraints and parts as possible. When things break, re-add those necessary parts.

This might work sometimes for companies (surprisingly, often it doesn't) - it has far more significant and wide-reaching consequences when you're doing it to an entire country and its institutions, particularly one as influential as America.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by callc on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @12:47PM (#42952289)
> Regardless of what you think of his intellectual capacity, he has a proven track record of organizing people to produce exceptional outcomes !

And? Getting people whipped up into a frenzy through fear, us vs them mentality, narcissism, to do good work is toxic. Musk is toxic.

We should stop elevating leaders as extra-ordinarily capable. Especially leaders who employ a negative leadership style instead of one founded on empathy, trust, respect, and importance of the group over leader.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by newsreaderguy on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @04:42PM (#42955616)
ask yourself who is doing the whipping into frenzy

the media + bureaucratic class + democrat leaders who all have a vested interest in these un-audited institutions remaining in the shadows,

or

the people doing exactly what half the country asked them to do: clean up the government in an unprecedented way

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @11:24PM (#42959061)
There's no media here, just people talking about the jobs they lost and the jobs they're going to lose, everyone can see it.

For better or worse, there is no media, only social media mobs.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Thursday February 13, 2025 @05:30PM (#43042289)
Maybe if DEI is in your job title its not a real job.

I would think both sides of the political spectrum agree that the government spends money frivolously; so I am confused on why people are so upset. Maybe they aren't actually upset and all we are hearing in any form of media are government leeches crying about the end to their gravy train.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Friday February 14, 2025 @04:04PM (#43053048)
Apparently neither is accountant, auditor, federal employee, journalist, judge, reporter, lawmaker, lawman, weatherman, scientist, congressman, etc.

And yes, everyone agrees that there is waste on government, however, what is being labeled as waste is medicare and SNAP and foreign aid.

Why are people upset? there's 200,000 people getting laid off and its only february, of course people are upset, I very much doubt 200k employees are DEI hires.

> The layoffs include between 1,200 and 2,000 employees at the Department of Energy (DOE), including staff from the nuclear security administration and the loans office, two sources familiar with the decision told Reuters.

https://www.newsweek.com/federal-layoffs-live-thousands-prob...

Let's not forget about FAA, which immediately had 2 crashes after it was gutted.

> The aviation security committee, which was mandated by Congress after the 1988 PanAm 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, will technically continue to exist but it won’t have any members to carry out the work of examining safety issues at airlines and airports. Before Tuesday, the group included representatives of all the key groups in the industry — including the airlines and major unions — as well as members of a group associated with the victims of the PanAm 103 bombing. The vast majority of the group’s recommendations were adopted over the years.

https://apnews.com/article/coast-guard-homeland-security-pri...

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Monday February 17, 2025 @12:45PM (#43081469)
>And yes, everyone agrees that there is waste on government, however, what is being labeled as waste is medicare and SNAP and foreign aid.

Its not our Job to aid the world. Foreign aid is a huge money laundering scam by and large. We have major problems here on our own shores.

> The layoffs include between 1,200 and 2,000 employees at the Department of Energy (DOE), including staff from the nuclear security administration and the loans office

Good. Maybe we can actually build some more nuclear plants instead of having to fight green energy bureaucracy.

>Let's not forget about FAA, which immediately had 2 crashes after it was gutted.

Circumstantial timing. The FAA has been having close calls before it was gutted. The government can do more with less. The plane crashes will stop when we return to meritocracy.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @02:09PM (#43093769)
> Its not our Job to aid the world. Foreign aid is a huge money laundering scam by and large. We have major problems here on our own shores.

Not that huge, not a scam either given America is so deeply hated on most of the world, America decided to fight and kill everyone who even thought about "communism" whatever that meant, USAID is its foreign marketing team. Seems like it doesn't want to market itself. that's fine, You also quoted medicare and snap there, I hope you're not one of those that think having well fed people and farmers is not part of a governments job.

> Good. Maybe we can actually build some more nuclear plants instead of having to fight green energy bureaucracy.

If you can't build a nuclear power plant safely, maybe you shouldn't build it at all. Also some firings were people who handle the nuclear weapons.

> Circumstantial timing. The FAA has been having close calls before it was gutted. The government can do more with less. The plane crashes will stop when we return to meritocracy.

It's so great that you mention doing more with less and a meritocracy in this instance given that, the washout rate for being an air traffic controller is incredibly high and there is a deficit of air traffic controllers.

https://www.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/one-thing/episodes/8b310a...

> The government can do more with less.

Can it though?

https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich

> The cuts are depleting the staff members who help ensure that taxpayers pay what they owe. As of [2017], the IRS had 9,510 auditors. That’s down a third from 2010. The last time the IRS had fewer than 10,000 revenue agents was 1953, when the economy was a seventh of its current size. And the IRS is still shrinking. Almost a third of its remaining employees will be eligible to retire in the next year, and with morale plummeting, many of them will.

> The plane crashes will stop when we return to meritocracy.

Return to when? When was this true?

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @06:39PM (#43096568)
>Not that huge

Doesnt matter how huge, its a waste of money doing DEI programs in Burma.

>If you can't build a nuclear power plant safely

plenty of safe nuke plants running and they are building more for datacenters

>washout rate for being an air traffic controller is incredibly high

not really a problem of government spending unless you are saying they should pay more? not sure what youre getting at

>Can it though?

Yes it can I mean afterall we had no income tax during the industrial revolution

>Return to when? When was this true?

this was true when we hired people based on merit and not immutable characteristics.

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Wednesday February 19, 2025 @02:31AM (#43099596)
> Doesnt matter how huge, its a waste of money doing DEI programs in Burma.

That's opinion.

> plenty of safe nuke plants running and they are building more for datacenters

Yeah, and they were doing it safely.

> not really a problem of government spending unless you are saying they should pay more? not sure what youre getting at

You do, you're just ignoring it on purpose.

> Yes it can I mean afterall we had no income tax during the industrial revolution

And now you do, because it was necessary, back when it was implemented... this is just ignoring economic history.

Also, Industrial revolution!? the 1800s!? huh!?

Of course there was small government back then, the government only worked for landowners, not blacks or even women. Just white land owners. There wasn't even plumbing back then on most of america, barely any public utility, hell there wasn't even electricity, there was literally nothing to do apart from not dying of cholera.

plus the slaves/women did everything for free and if they died you just replaced them.

> this was true when we hired people based on merit and not immutable characteristics.

Pretty sure you're still hiring doctors and people with degrees, just now you have to hire a black one sometimes. what's so bad about a 1% in diversity hires?

(also trans people have mutable charactistics, ha)

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Thursday February 27, 2025 @03:22PM (#43198055)
>That's opinion.

That's opinion

>Yeah, and they were doing it safely.

That's opinion.

>And now you do, because it was necessary, back when it was implemented... this is just ignoring economic history.

You mean the centuries of history with public works projects that didnt require taxes?

>Also, Industrial revolution!? the 1800s!? huh!?

I obviously mean at the turn of the 20th century with the huge leaps in applied sciences and engineering giving us planes trains and automobiles. All done without taxes before 1913. You know, the greatest period of advancement in modern history?

>what's so bad about a 1% in diversity hires?

What's so good about it exactly? It does a disservice to everyone including the diversity hire.

>(also trans people have mutable charactistics, ha)

body dysmorphia is mental illness as evidenced by the ~40% suicide rate. Hows that for an opinion (Fact)?

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by vharuck on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @01:37PM (#42953061)
"You can't be loony and rich. You've got to be eccentric if you're rich.

- Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by nmz on Wednesday February 05, 2025 @11:20PM (#42959043)
Electric cars are a con job though, impressive, but still a con.
Re:What's Happening Inside the NIH and NSF by l0t0b0r0s on Thursday February 13, 2025 @01:35PM (#43039477)
Electric cars have nothing to do with the conservation of the environment, but are are a way for rich people virtue signal in an effort to offload the guilt of their "carbon footprint" to another country that mines the Cobalt and Lithium. Pollution for thee not for me.