there's a whole lot to unpack here, and none of it is good. at the end of the day, you can consider Musk an outside contractor. how exactly is that treason? also, in which part of the constitution does it say anything about the federal payment system? that's not an article I'm familiar

The power of the purse is the authority of the United States Congress to levy taxes and control government spending. It's a key part of the separation of powers in the Constitution and a check on the executive branch. If Musk actually stops any payment that was authorized by Congress then he is violating the Constitution.

DOGE also has no legitimate need or legal right to access the federal payment system. He is in violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and should be arrested and put on trial along with any other DOGE employee who has accessed the federal payment system.

Here is what Claude has to say:

If an employee of the US government were to gain access to the federal payment system and stop a payment that was authorized by Congress what crime would they be guilty of?

This scenario would likely constitute several federal crimes under Title 18 of the United States Code:

The primary offense would be embezzlement and theft of public funds under 18 U.S.C. § 641, as the employee would be misappropriating or interfering with government money.

Since this involves computer systems, they would also violate 18 U.S.C. § 1030 - the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA). Specifically, subsection (a)(4) which prohibits accessing a protected computer with intent to defraud.

The act would additionally qualify as conversion and misapplication of government funds under 18 U.S.C. § 648, since it involves an officer or employee converting public money to unauthorized purposes.

Furthermore, this action would violate the Anti-Deficiency Act (31 U.S.C. § 1341) which prohibits federal employees from preventing the execution of budget appropriations made by Congress.

If the employee acted with others, conspiracy charges under 18 U.S.C. § 371 could apply.

The maximum penalties vary by statute but can include:

    Up to 10 years imprisonment for embezzlement
    Up to 5 years for CFAA violations
    Up to 10 years for conversion of public money
    Up to 2 years for Anti-Deficiency Act violations

Sources: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/641 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/1341 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371

And DeepSeek R1

If a U.S. government employee unlawfully accessed the federal payment system to stop a congressionally authorized payment, they could face several criminal charges, depending on the specifics of their actions. Key potential violations include:

    Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) - 18 U.S.C. § 1030:

        If the employee exceeded authorized access or acted without authorization to manipulate the payment system, they could be charged under the CFAA, which criminalizes unauthorized access to computer systems.

    Obstruction of Federal Proceedings or Official Duties - 18 U.S.C. § 1505 or § 1913:

        § 1505: Obstruction of agency proceedings or congressional actions.

        § 1913: Prohibits using appropriated funds to lobby or interfere with government decisions, though applicability may depend on intent.

        Interfering with congressionally mandated payments could constitute obstruction of lawful government functions.

    Theft or Conversion of Government Funds - 18 U.S.C. § 641:

        If the payment was lawfully owed and the employee’s actions deprived the recipient of funds, this could be seen as theft or conversion of government property.

    False Statements or Fraud - 18 U.S.C. § 1001:

        If the employee falsified records, submitted false information, or lied to justify stopping the payment, they might face charges for making false statements.

    Conspiracy - 18 U.S.C. § 371:

        If others were involved, conspiracy charges could apply to defraud the U.S. or commit other offenses.

    Malfeasance or Misconduct in Office:

        While not a specific federal statute, general misconduct or breach of public trust could lead to charges under broader provisions or administrative penalties (e.g., termination, fines).

Additional Considerations:

    Intent: Prosecution would require proof of willful intent to obstruct or defraud.

    Harm: The impact (e.g., financial loss, disruption of government operations) could influence charges and sentencing.

This scenario underscores the intersection of cybersecurity, obstruction, and misuse of authority laws. Legal outcomes would depend heavily on evidence of intent, authorization level, and the specific means used to halt the payment.

Please don’t share with us what Claude has to say. We can all query an LLM ourselves.

But you wouldn't do so, would you?

protip for the future: if you need an actual legal opinion do not try to use AI

The power of the purse is the authority of the United States Congress to levy taxes and control government spending. It's a key part of the separation of powers in the Constitution and a check on the executive branch. If Musk actually stops any payment that was authorized by Congress then he is violating the Constitution.

DOGE also has no legitimate need or legal right to access the federal payment system. He is in violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and should be arrested and put on trial along with any other DOGE employee who has accessed the federal payment system.

Time to change your handle, "UltraSane"

Please don't be cryptic. I am definitely saner than Musk right now.

what law is he breaking?

Stopping payments authorized by congress, for one.

You will need to do some mental gymnastics to find a criminal statute that could be used to prosecute that and it does not appear the US Attorney for DC is at all interested in doing that.

Musk and DOGE employees could be arrested and tried by the DOJ if a democrat wins the next Presidential election. These are the crimes they have broken.

    Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) - 18 U.S.C. § 1030:

        If the employee exceeded authorized access or acted without authorization to manipulate the payment system, they could be charged under the CFAA, which criminalizes unauthorized access to computer systems.

    Obstruction of Federal Proceedings or Official Duties - 18 U.S.C. § 1505 or § 1913:

        § 1505: Obstruction of agency proceedings or congressional actions.

        § 1913: Prohibits using appropriated funds to lobby or interfere with government decisions, though applicability may depend on intent.

        Interfering with congressionally mandated payments could constitute obstruction of lawful government functions.

    Theft or Conversion of Government Funds - 18 U.S.C. § 641:

        If the payment was lawfully owed and the employee’s actions deprived the recipient of funds, this could be seen as theft or conversion of government property.

    False Statements or Fraud - 18 U.S.C. § 1001:

        If the employee falsified records, submitted false information, or lied to justify stopping the payment, they might face charges for making false statements.

    Conspiracy - 18 U.S.C. § 371:

        If others were involved, conspiracy charges could apply to defraud the U.S. or commit other offenses.

    Malfeasance or Misconduct in Office:

        While not a specific federal statute, general misconduct or breach of public trust could lead to charges under broader provisions or administrative penalties (e.g., termination, fines).

Again, none of those directly applies to what DOGE is doing. You have to really stretch the meaning of those laws to try to make it fit. Prosecutors do this regularly, but the current US Attorney is unlikely to.

Computer Fraud and Abuse Act applies directly to how DOGE is accessing computer systems they have no legal right or need to access, often by force.

If DOGE stops any payments that Congress has approved they are violating

Theft or Conversion of Government Funds - 18 U.S.C. § 641

Musk is also lying his ass off about USAID to justify what he is doing so he would be violating

Conspiracy - 18 U.S.C. § 371:

All of these:

Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) - 18 U.S.C. § 1030:

        If the employee exceeded authorized access or acted without authorization to manipulate the payment system, they could be charged under the CFAA, which criminalizes unauthorized access to computer systems.

    Obstruction of Federal Proceedings or Official Duties - 18 U.S.C. § 1505 or § 1913:

        § 1505: Obstruction of agency proceedings or congressional actions.

        § 1913: Prohibits using appropriated funds to lobby or interfere with government decisions, though applicability may depend on intent.

        Interfering with congressionally mandated payments could constitute obstruction of lawful government functions.

    Theft or Conversion of Government Funds - 18 U.S.C. § 641:

        If the payment was lawfully owed and the employee’s actions deprived the recipient of funds, this could be seen as theft or conversion of government property.

    False Statements or Fraud - 18 U.S.C. § 1001:

        If the employee falsified records, submitted false information, or lied to justify stopping the payment, they might face charges for making false statements.

    Conspiracy - 18 U.S.C. § 371:

        If others were involved, conspiracy charges could apply to defraud the U.S. or commit other offenses.

    Malfeasance or Misconduct in Office:

        While not a specific federal statute, general misconduct or breach of public trust could lead to charges under broader provisions or administrative penalties (e.g., termination, fines).