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Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by bmelton on Thursday January 23, 2025 @02:12PM (#42806999)
Ruth Goodman has a phenomenal series about living in historic times on BBC. She's "lived" in several eras as early as back to the 1620s, and I've enjoyed literally all of them including the one she did from Guedelon, entitled Secrets of the Castle.

Some of them are available for streaming, some appear lost to time (no pun intended) but this one appears to be available on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL72jhKwankOiwI5zt6lC3...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrets_of_the_Castle

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by Syonyk on Thursday January 23, 2025 @03:49PM (#42807906)
The entire "BBC Farm series" is worth watching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_historic_farm_series

Ruth Goodman's shows are fun to watch, because regardless of what she's doing, how covered in grime she is, what era she's living and working in, she exudes such a sense of joy, and a general giddy, "I cannot believe that I get to do this as my job!" attitude.

It's like watching the last couple seasons of Mythbusters. There's no doubt that they are having a grand time of it.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by 0cf8612b2e1e on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:29PM (#42808282)
Could you expand on the last point? Was there a change from the initial seasons? I have only casually watched the show, but everyone seemed to be having a great time, just doing weird engineering things with someone else footing the bill.
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by Syonyk on Thursday January 23, 2025 @05:19PM (#42808637)
The first couple seasons were Jamie and Adam, with a fairly minimal film crew, "doing stuff." Going to random stores to get things and talk to people, and generally having a good time doing it on a shoestring budget. The show largely focused on the process - how the rigs were built. What sort of small scale testing was done in the shop. The tools and processes they used to test this sort of stuff.

The mid-seasons added the build team (Keri, Grant (RIP) and Tory), and started what was, in my opinion, an unwelcome turn to "mainline television." They started adding more myths, more animations to explain things, and a lot of "Here's what we're going to do after the commercial!" and "Now that we're back from the commercial, here's what we've done!" sort of repeated filler - to the point that there was some subreddit that made versions without the filler and repeated content. It was a lot more "Here's the myth, here's the test" sort of TV, and mostly ignored the process.

The build team got along well enough for the first few seasons of it, but towards the later seasons with them, the tension and dislike between various people was obvious even on air. Kari and Tory couldn't stand each other, and the "pranks" on Tory went from "entertaining" to "genuinely mean."

The last few seasons were back to Adam and Jamie, focusing on the build, except with a budget and name recognition that allowed them to do basically anything they wanted - and you could tell they were loving it.

I know there's some contract drama and such behind the scenes as well, but the above is how it felt watching it. The last two seasons are easily my favorites, because they'd worked out how to do the show well, and they were able to test a lot of impressive-scale things that wouldn't have been an option earlier in the show.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by gradus_ad on Thursday January 23, 2025 @07:45PM (#42809506)
Huh? I did a quick search and everything I can find says the relationship among the 3 build team members was very close and positive, that they were all close friends. They went on to do a show together on Netflix. Maybe some of the later episodes give the impression that there were tensions but I don't see anything attesting to that.
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by Syonyk on Friday January 24, 2025 @01:07AM (#42810882)
I don't know. I watched the show, but wasn't by any means a superfan or something.

In the last season or so of the build team, the dynamics had changed. Keri and Tory, who had gotten along fine before, seemed unable to keep their dislike of each other out of the show. It went from "Okay, that's a pretty funny prank" to "You are actively trying to hurt each other." At least as I recall it.

I don't know, maybe they worked it out. But I do recall a season or so that was genuinely uncomfortable to watch, because of the dynamics between people on the show - and it was a distinct change from previous seasons.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by voakbasda on Saturday January 25, 2025 @11:50AM (#42822751)
Here’s another hypothesis: none of it was real, but rather manufactured drama in an attempt to drive up ratings. If those seasons were reformulated for mainstream, that would be the simplest explanation about how both things can be true.
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by atombender on Thursday January 23, 2025 @04:47PM (#42808414)
Big fan of the British farm series, which is fantastic, and I love Ruth Goodman and the rest of the gang. I've seen all the farm ones, but somehow I missed this show. Thanks for the tip, this looks exciting!
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by mxfh on Thursday January 23, 2025 @06:17PM (#42809057)
The Experimental archaeology wikipedia article also has a quite exhaustive list on other sites and representation of the topic in popular culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_archaeology#Examp...

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by bluGill on Thursday January 23, 2025 @06:41PM (#42809192)
I just watched the first, and I'm compelled to think that it looks like building with 19th century tools as if the 13th century. Some of it is accurate (to what I know), but in other places I keep thinking that the tool in question either didn't exist, or would have been too expensive to use when a much cheaper alternative existed.

In the 19th century mass production was starting and, but it wasn't until the late part that quality steel would have been available in quantity (a little steel would have come from refining iron ore, but most would have been iron). Iron doesn't harden like steel and so the hardening process they showed the blacksmith doing would have been questionable for tools. (though maybe they would have paid for expensive steel in stone cutting - I don't know) They did get hardening wrong - the yellow color is about tempering which is done after hardening. A blacksmith would know this difference, but probably couldn't explain it to the camera and just gave up.

Maybe a castle would have paid for steel tools, but I question if they could get it (any historian know more)? There were a number tools they used of iron that I suspect would have been wood instead.

The wagons seemed to have some advances that I don't think existed yet. Hard to tell because they don't show the wagons in detail, but I've read just enough about wagon development to suspect those were too advanced.

It appears they were using iron hammers on those stone chisels - that is iron wrapped around a wood handle - I'd expect wood mallets would be used instead. Why use expensive iron when a good wood head works just as well (or maybe better)

I also question if saws would have been available in that quantity. I believe they existed, though I'd expect a lot more work would have been done cutting to size with an axe type tool. I also suspect bronze wood tools would have been used - but here I don't know what would have been available in 13th century France.

They showed clothing - but unfortunately (as they admit) their sources are garments saints wore and those were preserved. That feels like looking at the suit Ronald Regan wore in office (something I expect would be preserved in a museum) and completely missing that common people in the 1980s probably were wearing blue jeans for labor, or in an office job they would have ditched the formal jacket. Worse would be preserving a bridesmaid dress (again, something I wouldn't be surprised to see preserved), but young girls probably were wearing blue jeans in 1980 except for those situations. This is something historians often lament - we get a lot of information on the rulers and priest classes - but little information on how the common person lived.

They also had a lot of horses. I would expect oxen to haul the wagons. They are slower, but much cheaper than a horse and work as well. Perhaps better given the state of yokes in those days.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by malleefowl on Thursday January 23, 2025 @08:57PM (#42809871)
Those are fascinating observations! Do you have any recommended reading for those interested in learning about medieval construction?
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by bluGill on Thursday January 23, 2025 @09:07PM (#42809908)
Many different sources and read between the lines. Acoup.blog - he mostly covers earlier times but you can still get a sense. https://christophermschwarz.com/ has done a lot of research into historical woodworking though mostly latter time periods you can still learn a lot.

those are the big ones. After that tons of youtube library books and so on. Just beware that at least half is false and you get to figure out which confident self proclaimed expert knows anything. (i at least admitted a lot of ignorance and speculation above)

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by bluGill on Friday January 24, 2025 @09:20AM (#42813255)
Another commenter claims that the iron used was all mined and refined nearby. I cannot verify this claim, but I'll accept it as likely true.

Thus I will relax my criticism of using iron. If that was available nearby of course it would be used. Though I'm only relaxing as I still suspect they are using late 1800's refining to get the amount of steel needed for the chisels. (the hammers could still be pure iron - we don't see heat treatment used on them, and in any case hitting hardened steel on hardened steel will cause something to break). (case hardening would have been known in the 13th century and result in the needed steel, but that heat treats differently so I'm not sure what would have been used).

However even if good ore is found nearby, refining it takes a lot of energy (read wood) and so I would expect they avoid using iron just because of the amount of additional labor to make it.

Speaking of wood. Their blacksmith appears to be using coal not charcoal. This isn't clear, but they probably should be making the charcoal for the blacksmith onsite not using coal. Coal wasn't very important until 17th century England.

While I'm at it, I just noticed their great tower is round. I'm not sure if that would be correct. A cannon was becoming advanced enough to need round towers in the 13th century, but I'm not sure of the timelines, and the thickness of the walls matter. The Chinese built thicker walled castle and so they didn't see gunpoweder/canons as useful tools, but European castle walls were often (not always!) thin enough that a cannon could destroy them. Thicker walls would have then been used for castles in response, and also round towers so that the stones beside could help take the impact of a cannonball that otherwise would go through.

Speaking of stone. Odds are the small local lord would have built their castle out of wood not stone. Wood would have been much less likely to survive to today so we see ruins of stone castles while the wood burned or rotted away.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by throwup238 on Friday January 24, 2025 @02:41PM (#42816304)
> Speaking of wood. Their blacksmith appears to be using coal not charcoal. This isn't clear, but they probably should be making the charcoal for the blacksmith onsite not using coal. Coal wasn't very important until 17th century England.

Since England had lots of surface coal deposits they started exploiting them in the 13th century for heating. It got so bad that they had to ban coal use in London in 1306 because of the air pollution. Depending on the locality and trade networks, blacksmiths from this era could have had plenty of coal.

The shift in the 17th century was running out of the easy surface deposits and switching to subsurface mining with chain pumps (driven by water wheels at first). That followed from centuries of development and resource exploitation.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by bluGill on Friday January 24, 2025 @03:29PM (#42816619)
this is France though. I don't know but I suspect different.
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by throwup238 on Friday January 24, 2025 @05:09PM (#42817397)
Definitely not as accessible for every day heating as wood but for something higher value like a blacksmith it might make sense to trade for it.

I think the bigger problem is the distribution of knowledge. Would French blacksmiths know of coal’s usefulness in the same century as it becomes widely used? Maybe in the printing press era, but it’s a bit of a stretch in the 13th century.

Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by bluGill on Friday January 24, 2025 @10:33PM (#42819230)
Charcoal is just as goodias coal in general. Depending onethe grade of coal it might even be better. Coal is less effort though as you dig it up in quanitiy as opposed to needing trees in the first place (these run out all the time) them the effort to cut and process them.
Re:Building a Medieval Castle from Scratch by defrost on Friday January 24, 2025 @10:50PM (#42819318)
> Charcoal is just as goodias coal in general.

is an almost meaningless statement in the context of producing quality iron and steel.

"Charcoal" is a reasonably consistent product, "Coal" is an entire spectrum that ranges from [thermal coal] through to [metallurgical (coking) coal].

In a quality production pipeline there's a seperation between means of generating furnace heat (can be electric arc, can be thermal coal fired, can be charcoal) and a means of sourcing carbon for bonding with raw iron ores (coking coal).

In the context of low grade iron and poor steel manufacture the distinctions matter less.