DOGE hasn't done anything yet, so this is purely expressing prejudice.

The people running it have track records we can assess, and have signaled their goals and in some cases stated them outright. This is simply judgement.

Elon's track record is to consistently succeed spectacularly with things that most people find laughably impossible to do. That's why I don't dismiss this project.

I missed there they stated outright that they're "only interested in enriching themselves and their cronies"?

There are two things rich Republicans hate more than anything in the world: the government spending "their" money on services for ordinary folks, and regulations preventing them from making even more money. This is often dressed up as "libertarianism," but in reality, it's simply worship of money as the ultimate virtue.

What sorts of organizations does DOGE want to defund? The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the IRS, the Department of Education, Planned Parenthood, PBS and NPR: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lindseychoo/2024/11/27/elon-mus.... Nevermind that these make up a tiny portion of the intended 2 trillion in cuts.

Adjacent to this, Republican leadership has clearly signaled that they wish to gut Social Security, Medicaid, and the ACA. Here's Robert Reich reading the tea leaves: https://www.greenevillesun.com/opinion/national_columns/reic...

Oh, I would not be surprised to see Musk "succeed spectacularly" in this endeavor. But that's because money is power, and Musk has more of it than anyone in the country. I mean, he even bought himself a president! It's difficult to lose when you can just keep throwing cash at the problem.

By the way, nobody is ever going to tell you outright that they're "only interested in enriching themselves and their cronies." An intelligent adult should be able to interpret reality based on available evidence. If you wait for someone to throw off their mask and reveal themselves a cackling villain, you will find yourself an easy mark.

That Forbes article is just a Forbes journalist guessing what DOGE might do, based on things they've mentioned in passing.

Of course that doesn't add up to 2 trillion in cuts!

The Reich article is mostly him making up evil things DOGE might do, and then criticizing them for these imagined plans.

Once DOGE has real plans and proposals I'll be happy to mock them if they don't make sense. I agree their goals sound very difficult, but I've learned that there are always smarter people than me out there. Maybe you can at least agree with that last part :)

Can you come up with "non-evil" ways to cut 2 trillion, while you wait?

No, but let me expand on that.

The current deficit is 1.69 trillion (1), so something of that magnitude will have to happen, one way or another.

The "DOGE manifesto"(2) lays out the plans/goals in some detail. Note that it's not mainly budget cuts, and not intended to be complete in year 1.

(1): https://usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/budget/ (2): https://archive.ph/rAD4B

I could imagine a world where trying to completely eliminate the deficit in a short amount of time does dramatically more harm than the increase in the debt.

> > Elon's track record is to consistently succeed spectacularly with things that most people find laughably impossible to do

Entrepreneurship should be about making people's lives better and the measure of such improvement is very hard but could be measured by imagining a company disappear and evaluate the consequences on society.

If Musk companies disappeared tomorrow nothing would substantially change, if you disappeared Microsoft, Google, TMSC, JPMorgan, ExxonMobil, Saudi Aramco... you'd have civil war within a week.

Having a rocket land on its butt might be technically impressive but so is a 23 minute guitar solo which doesn't push any emotional chord in the listener whereas a 20 seconds note bend by David Gilmour in the right moment of a song brings people to tears.

As of today Musk companies are mostly performance art that you could disappear without any real consequence, that could change in the future but it has been 25 years now, not gonna hold my breath on that.

Those steering the ship have track records. I don't see anything prejudicial about evaluating the leadership of a government group w.r.t. their previous merits and shortcomings.

DOGE is nothing more than a glorified advisory role. They can talk whatever they want, they have no real power.

Elon Musk has done plenty worth judging already. Am I supposed to give every single venture of his the benefit of the doubt?

How is DOGE a grift? We need to curb our government’s absolutely excessive waste.

The premise is correct, but the trust in the executors is misplaced. One made money via government so there is a certain conflict of interest, another one is an ordinary American businessman with a questionable track record on the edge of ethics. That's right off the bat, on the merits, not even going into the politics.

Because of the messaging, like cutting regulations, entire departments - things that have impact on the entire country and not just a company and its customer base.

I believe, there is certainly a lot of room for improvements in government functions. But I also believe, those improvements are hidden in details and require actual work, other than just slashing funds, regulations or entire departments. Things are how they are for reasons. And those reasons will probably withstand deeper scrutiny, but not populism and conflicts of interest.

When you name your enlightened government-saving organization after a memecoin you own a mountain of, only bootlickers are going to think you're in it for altruistic reasons.

This is similar to elon's tendency to dump boatloads of money in politics to beat the people he claims are cheating by... dumping boatloads of money in politics.

If he wants any of this to be taken seriously by anyone other than his horde of bootlickers he needs to make "earning people's trust" a priority, even when it's opposed to his own interest. Instead he acts as though he's entitled to the public's trust because (he's sure) he's such a good guy, and he's (he's sure) actually acting in their interest. Doesn't work that way. Trust is earned by listening to people and by taking seriously what you hear from them—not by egoistic paternalism.

Furthermore, these business people constantly talk in terms which reflect basically-wrong beliefs about how money works at a national level. A country is not a company. A dollar spent by a country can return to its coffers as taxes many times over, and this basic fact breaks any analogy between the two.

What they're going to end up cutting (and have) is children cancer research and infectious disease teams. Such "excessive waste!"

DOGE is not an official government department, it’s a presidential advisory committee. It’s not going to have taxpayer funding, oversight and no far-reaching powers over other official departments besides shit-stirring and distraction.

You think the people who "work" for/on DOGE will not be paid? Or you think that Musk is underwriting their paychecks?

Initially only Musk was making a paycheck from DOGE - since you needed a X premium subscription to apply. So its more like applicants were underwriting Musk's paychecks - that's how a true-blue American capitalist operates.

He changed it after some blowback but I have to admit - American businessmen are always cunning.

We need to raise taxes, specifically on the people in charge of DOGE. You think that's what the plan's going to be?

When the debt surety payments are higher than our national security budget i agree wholeheartedly. We are spending more than we are making and it's growing every year. We cannot continue like this or our surety payments will be higher than all distretionary spending by 2032.

I never understood the hate for Elon, vivek, trump. They aren't perfect people, but i'm really excited about the team he's been able to put together. Like who else has been able to hire every single person who ran against him? David sacs, elon, other extremely smart people....

Other people here seem to act like going to school and doing economics to be at Doge are just so incredibly niave... We need a huge diversity of people.

Despite all of trumps faults, he has built a powerhouse team that trancends party lines.