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Re:Android XR by kfarr on Thursday December 12, 2024 @03:21PM (#42402977)
This x100, I wrote a similar message on a WebXR forum. They've started and stopped so many times it's hard to take this effort seriously. Is this just exec FOMO trying to catchup to Apple and Meta? Or do they really believe in this? I don't think it's the latter.
Re:Android XR by radicaldreamer on Thursday December 12, 2024 @04:34PM (#42403607)
All of this boils down to internal incentives at Google to get promoted
Re:Android XR by georgeecollins on Thursday December 12, 2024 @08:10PM (#42405094)
Which is why you would have to be insane to develop software for them. Twice in my career I have been involved in development projects for Google hardware (wear and daydream). Never again.
Re:Android XR by zx8080 on Thursday December 12, 2024 @08:16PM (#42405135)
Why exactly was the promotion motivation bad?
Re:Android XR by johannes1234321 on Thursday December 12, 2024 @11:50PM (#42405998)
The risk/assumption is that once the lead developer/PM/etc. got their promotion l, they get for doing something "new" this is being dropped for a new project as maintenance brings less points for promotions.
Re:Android XR by 8n4vidtmkvmk on Friday December 13, 2024 @01:52AM (#42406459)
Not less points, zero points.
Re:Android XR by fnfjfk on Friday December 13, 2024 @01:14AM (#42406316)
They're complaining about developing software for Google platforms, not working at Google. The platform will get dropped because it no longer has the opportunity to fuel more L6 promos.

I think the obvious notable exception is Android, which is not going anywhere and which now has a fairly delightful development experience with Kotlin and Compose.

Re:Android XR by pjmlp on Friday December 13, 2024 @02:25AM (#42406601)
I wouldn't call it delightful, but that is as it is.

Kotlin folks have prevented Java support on purpose, only to be forced to update Java support, as Android slowly started to be frozen in time, thus Kotlin losing one of its selling points, Java compatibility, with everyone on JVM world moving beyond Java 8.

Go check any recent Android conference, and most likely there will be a few talks related to Compose performance and gotchas.

Re:Android XR by fidotron on Friday December 13, 2024 @09:51AM (#42408917)
Yeah, their ability to burn goodwill with the people closest to them is unparalleled.

I guess they know there will always be someone else to fill the void, but certainly by the time of GearVR and later Stadia the whole games industry was wise to allowing any of FAANG near the crown jewels, which is a major factor in why software support for VR has been so unenthusiastic. This was not helped by Oculus hiring the old Scaleform execs who had just pissed off half the universe.

Re:Android XR by onlyrealcuzzo on Thursday December 12, 2024 @05:32PM (#42404117)
> Is this just exec FOMO trying to catchup to Apple and Meta?

Google doesn't work like this.

People can almost autonomously spawn up small projects.

If it looks promising they keep getting more resources until it either has explosive growth and profits or someone higher in the chain thinks there isn't a current viable path for THAT version of the project to profitablity.

Google might believe in XR and keep funding these small projects, but if none of them display evidence that that particular approach is going to be huge, then they move on.

It's not top down.

Sundar doesn't say, we need more XR. Team, go find me the most promising options, and then we'll fund it to the moon. And then a month later he gets bored and says, no, never mind, kill that. Let's chase another hype bubble. Only to then months later come back and say, team, we need more XR!

Re:Android XR by tgma on Thursday December 12, 2024 @07:14PM (#42404769)
B.S. Perhaps it was true 10+ years ago but not today, not even close. Also, "XR" today would not be considered a small project. Cardboard perhaps counts as one and that was almost a research toy.

Anything on that scale Apple/Meta bets on is definitely brought up at the highest executive level and there has to be some thought going on what the response would be if any.

Re:Android XR by skeeter2020 on Thursday December 12, 2024 @06:34PM (#42404522)
>> If it looks promising they keep getting more resources until it either has explosive growth and profits or someone higher in the chain thinks

This may be the case, but everything eventually gets compared to the ad business, and the projected financials, no matter how optimistic, look terrible. Then the team leading the initiative wises up and drops it, gets tasked with something else or frustrated and those people leave.

Re:Android XR by brickfaced on Thursday December 12, 2024 @06:45PM (#42404587)
>Sundar doesn't say, we need more XR.

Right, that's the job of some random PM who will launch a half-baked XR project that overlaps with a nearly identical XR project down the hall, which will compete with its fellow Google project/product in the marketplace and confuse customers before getting killed within 18 months of launch. See also Google Wallet and Google Wallet (yes), Allo and Duo and GChat and Hangouts, and so on.

Re:Android XR by stephenr on Thursday December 12, 2024 @08:16PM (#42405134)
> See also Google Wallet and Google Wallet (yes)

... wat? Are you suggesting Google has two different services both called Google wallet?

Re:Android XR by potatolicious on Thursday December 12, 2024 @08:27PM (#42405179)
Correct. Google’s forays into payments, including identically named but different products, is so complex that it has a Wikipedia diagram:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Google_payment_apps

Re:Android XR by stephenr on Thursday December 12, 2024 @08:38PM (#42405232)
Oh sweet baby Jesus what the fuck.

Not one, not two, but three different things called Google wallet, and four different things called Google Pay, one of which was formerly called Google wallet and one of which went on to be called Google wallet.

How is this real?

Re:Android XR by xelamonster on Friday December 13, 2024 @12:37AM (#42406180)
Well this explains why every time I get payment autofill suggestions from Google it's a random one of four or five possible auth flows, and pulls from an arbitrary one of at least two separate data sources with different sets of cards saved...

I let my password manager handle it now.

Re:Android XR by drcongo on Friday December 13, 2024 @03:08AM (#42406787)
That is genuinely jaw-dropping.
Re:Android XR by speed_spread on Friday December 13, 2024 @11:10AM (#42409826)
Wait till you see Google Jaw and then witness Google drop it.
Re:Android XR by sofixa on Friday December 13, 2024 @05:05AM (#42407342)
To be fair to them, the diagram makes it look worse than it actually was. From the user perspective, you got your Google Wallet app replaced by a Google Pay app which got replaced by a Google Wallet app. They all work the same (the last one has an extra tab for transit cards), had the same data/information (loyalty and bank cards), and even look pretty similar.

Yeah, it was dumb having your app change names and slightly looks, but materially, little changed.

Re:Android XR by stephen_cagle on Saturday December 14, 2024 @02:57PM (#42419060)
Your experience at Google is not what I experienced at Google. Something of much smaller scale than this would require VP approval to begin work on.

Disclaimer: I'm willing to believe that I just had less swing/power than you did at Google (or am not skilled at getting those things alight), but the idea that this was spun up "autonomously" (organically/grass roots) seems pretty far fetched.

tldr; Most things were delegated hierarchically from my experience.

Re:Android XR by onlyrealcuzzo on Sunday December 15, 2024 @11:28PM (#42428023)
You're not going to be a L4 in Data Processing and start a Stadia project on your own, no.

It would also be ridiculous for you to even try.

But you can spin up smaller things, and L7+ can start major projects if they want to risk their career.

And that's how most of the non-massive initiatives have worked.

Massive initiatives like Stadia, Cloud, Maps, Social, Play, and Gemini are atypical at Google considering the thousands of smaller projects that have launched, maybe tens of thousands considering internal projects.

Even most of those project decisions aren't happening at the C level.