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Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by fxtentacle on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:06PM (#42392978)
"CEOs don’t want to live in a world where they go to their son’s baseball game and there must be security present,"

I have a pretty easy solution for that, but it might reduce profits: Just behave in a way so that your fellow citizens don't hate you?

If people demonstrate by shouting your company name while carrying coffins around - which is what happened earlier this year when United Healthcare started using AI to reject claims - then that probably means that your actions have made you unpopular.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by acdha on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:24PM (#42393151)
Yes - there’s always some risk of theft, extortion, etc. but this case resonated so strongly because so many Americans have had life-altering insurance denials. One survey I saw had it at 13% of the population saying they knew someone who died because of a denial:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/268094/millions-lost-someone-co...

Whether or not you think that’s fair, that’s a huge number of people with the basis for a serious grudge. Since we’ve made it easier to get guns than healthcare, I’d expect copycats - especially after people see how much it struck a nerve.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by reverendsteveii on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:32PM (#42393216)
13% + 1

They didn't cover my grandmother's mammogram

They didn't cover her chemo

They didn't cover the pain and anxiety meds for her palliative care

She died of cancer over the course of two years. Insurance made sure that she couldn't detect it early, treat it, or manage her pain and terror. As far as I'm concerned, they caused her death directly and made it as horrible as possible.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by CryptoBanker on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:44PM (#42393319)
> They didn't cover her chemo

How does that happen? AFAIK the ACA mandates coverage for cancer treatment for almost all plans.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by acdha on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @05:59PM (#42394001)
I don’t know their situation but common tactics are to deny claims hoping that the patient will either die or find other funding options. This is an entire industry:

https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health...

https://www.propublica.org/article/evicore-health-insurance-...

This is one example of how hard it can be to fight these fraudulent denials, even for someone with above average resources:

https://www.propublica.org/article/priority-health-michigan-...

Individuals can’t fix these problems at scale: it needs something like a government investigator with subpoena power and the ability to directly fine executives. As long as people make more money by denying care, they’re just going to keep finding ways to do so.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by clipsy on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @05:33PM (#42393797)
The government can mandate anything it wants, if insurance companies are allowed to perpetrate mass fraudulent denials then it simply doesn't matter.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by Aloisius on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @06:16PM (#42394151)
Just because it mandates coverage doesn't mean it mandates any treatment be provided in every case.

Certain expensive chemo drugs will get denied unless cheaper options are tried first, if they're used off-label or experimental. Some won't be approved until surgery, at too early a stage or if tests don't indicate elevated risk factors.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by JohnFen on Thursday December 12, 2024 @10:26AM (#42399918)
The plan may cover it, but that doesn't mean the insurance company won't find a way to deny the claim.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by reverendsteveii on Thursday December 12, 2024 @11:10AM (#42400387)
What you do is you deny it over and over and give a confused old woman the run-around until she's so exhausted she decides it's literally easier to die than to continue fighting. Ask me how I know.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by dr_kiszonka on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:54PM (#42393421)
> Since we’ve made it easier to get guns than healthcare

This is such a great line! On the bright side, perhaps these big companies will now start lobbying for more reasonable gun laws.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by neverartful on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @05:26PM (#42393742)
In the case of United Healthcare's CEO the murderer could have just have easily used a knife. When someone is really intent on killing you, guns are not their only option.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by acdha on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @06:03PM (#42394027)
No, but it makes it much, much easier to do so successfully.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by basementcat on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:25PM (#42393153)
There is a free market solution to this. If the cost (including externalities) of 24/7 armed security is worth the increase in shareholder value, then by all means do it. If not, don't.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by fxtentacle on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:38PM (#42393272)
I agree. They'll probably reduce the number of claims they deny until the cost to prevent the next CEO from getting murdered is perfectly balanced with the increased profits caused by unethically denied claims. If you're a true believer in the markets, your CEOs live is just another line item to be optimised.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by reverendsteveii on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:26PM (#42393167)
Nah they thought they were just gonna do whatever they wanted to forever no matter who got hurt. The rich and powerful always believe that, and they're usually 100% correct right up until the moment where they're 100% incorrect.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by trod1234 on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @05:35PM (#42393817)
I suppose that would depend on your working definition of correctness.

If correct means its legally unenforceable and practical and you only take that into consideration in isolation, then yes, right up until logarithmic error occurs, as you say.

The brass verdict is not a new concept, you see it show up in movies all the time like for example, The Beekeeper with Jason Statham.

Unfortunately it is a fairly sound and established fact that violence happens more often when law fails to serve its primary function for the people.

In a "rule of law", non-violent conflict management takes place. This is one of its primary purposes.

When the requirements for a "rule of law" degrade into a "rule by law" regardless of what members of such systems may claim (people may be delusional,blind, or lie), through corruption or otherwise, these things inevitably occur since there is no other means to resolve conflict.

This may just be one more example where business people win so much that they lose.

When someone is at the top of a company, you are responsible not only for your actions, but for those under you as well.

People in those positions must always be vigilant to inaction more than action, including those actions of others who are under your purview because inaction or failure to oversee is an action itself and a choice that is favored by many absent any information under many common management styles today.

This is a sad story, but the news rarely covers anything other than fire flood or blood. If it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead, or so the newsies say.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by stevage on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:50PM (#42393370)
Probably not that easy in a country as divided as the US. Many actions will be hated by 50% of the country whichever way you go.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by fxtentacle on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:57PM (#42393449)
Yes, people might not agree on what's best. But I don't think anyone feels like they can surely get away with murder. That means for them to decide to kill someone, they themselves are also sacrificing their own future. People will only do that for a cause that they truly care about. And while people are divided, on almost all issues they don't hate the other side enough that they'd be willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause.

You need to do something uniquely unpopular for receiving that intensity of hate. Also, it seems like despite the divide, most people agree on their hatred for insurance companies?

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by brokenmachine on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:53PM (#42393411)
Nobody hates Flavor Flav.
Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by NoGravitas on Thursday December 12, 2024 @12:03PM (#42400958)
There's no song called "Fuck the Fire Department"*

* Technically there is, but it was written after this saying became widely used, and also is not actually an anti-fire-department song.

Re:Fear in the C-Suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO gunned down by anacrolix on Wednesday December 11, 2024 @04:51PM (#42393382)
Fuck, that's awful. I didn't know why they were so hated and now I do.