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Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by culi on Monday December 09, 2024 @06:06PM (#42371584)
Disease is not a problem if we stop practicing monocultures. The added labor costs associated with polyculture still end up being less than the added energy costs of indoor farming
Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by adalacelove on Monday December 09, 2024 @06:22PM (#42371719)
From TFA:

While the focus has been on olives, the bacterium’s ability to infect such a broad spectrum of plants makes it an agricultural nightmare, particularly in regions where multiple crops are grown in close proximity.

Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by giantg2 on Monday December 09, 2024 @10:49PM (#42373539)
They aren't talking about polyculture as proximity to other types of crops. They are talking about the limited genetic diversity in within a specific type of crop. This issue is very common. Another example is the Cavendish banana. I believe the article advocates for planting resistant varieties.
Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tuesday December 10, 2024 @04:23AM (#42375209)
>They aren't talking about polyculture as proximity to other types of crops. They are talking about the limited genetic diversity in within a specific type of crop.

I know that not everyone is a horticulturalist. Allow me to explain why this is dumb. It is true that for a crop like tomatoes, you might just grow any old mongrel seed, and that the tomatoes will still produce... even if yields are off 30% or 40%. Monocropping in that case is about increasing yields, not making the impossible possible.

This is simply not true with most orchard tree crops (or grapes, or about half the sorts of food crops you've enjoyed all your life). An apple, for instance isn't just a monocrop of closely related sibling plants... each Fuji or Pink Lady apple you've eaten is a genetic clone of any other of that type. They are literally cloned through grafting (and sometimes rooted cuttings). If we want to get really technical, each tree is technically a chimera, with only the crown being Pink Lady, the low trunk and roots will be something like M.111 (another variety that you don't eat it's fruit). Hell, sometimes there's even a third type in the middle of the two called an "interstock". What would happen if you didn't clone apple varieties? You wouldn't eat apples anymore. Every apple tree would produce its own kind of fruit, some might be just as good as Fuji or Yellow Delicious or any of the others you're familiar with. But there'd only ever be one tree of that. Apples do not grow true to seed. Some would be little golf-ball-sized crab apples. Others would be completely tasteless. Or dry and pithy. Or nasty-looking things that always split while growing. Maybe farmers would still grow them as feed for hogs (but productivity is also a genetic trait, and you've just struck a death-blow against having a large number of highly productive trees). Maybe they'd be grown to make alcohol (more applejack or cider than apfelwein I'd think).

But apples as a desert fruit would be gone.

And it's like this for many, many crops. Hell, even something like wheat... you can complain about monocropping, but these new varieties that they use actually resist diseases better (not to mention prevented who knows how many famines through increased yield). This is the argument of someone who whines about GMO crops and shops at Whole foods, a certain political type whose preferred policies seem designed to just make food more expensive and scarce.

>Another example is the Cavendish banana.

There are plenty of banana cultivars... few of them of the sort that people in the developed world enjoy. It's the same problem as all of the other. But for Cavendish (and a tiny handful of other varieties), you'd have no bananas at all.

Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by giantg2 on Tuesday December 10, 2024 @09:03AM (#42376896)
Yes, these are all things I know.

You bring up apples and other orchard fruits. Yes, in production you want things like uniformity and yield. But from a long term survival standpoint, you want some diversity, such as through preservation of heritage varieties or allowing some seeds to grow and selecting from them. Otherwise, you end up with a very short list of possible options when faced with new diseases. You need some genetic pool to select resistant rootstock from. It also prevents things like genetic and epigenetic adaptations to the environment (see progressive cold hardening). Of course the economics of it discourages farmers from selecting currently inferior varieties for crops. But perhaps a biosecurity program could fill that gap.

Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tuesday December 10, 2024 @12:22PM (#42378914)
>But from a long term survival standpoint, you want some

You don't get to have that. It's just not an option. All these polyploidals do not work like that. You can have uniformity (which people want anyway), or you can have fruit that's so bad no one wants to bother growing it. There's no middle ground.

Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by giantg2 on Tuesday December 10, 2024 @01:30PM (#42379718)
Haha nice false dichotomy.
Re:Xylella Fastidiosa: A crisis brewing in Europe's olive gr... by heresie-dabord on Monday December 09, 2024 @09:37PM (#42373145)
Monoculture was not the cause. From TFA:

"The origin of the Xylella outbreak in Italy can be traced back to a single coffee plant imported from Central America in 2008. Researchers found that the bacterium in the infected coffee plant adapted to thrive in olive trees, setting the stage for the crisis that would unfold over the next decade. By 2015, the disease had spread beyond Apulia, affecting regions across France, Spain, and Portugal. The rapid spread of this bacterium has left scientists and farmers alike scrambling for solutions."