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Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by JumpCrisscross on Monday November 11, 2024 @10:49PM (#42112621)
> its not like flying planes is a new phenomenom. Why were the procedures still bad after all this time?

It’s a new plane!

Also, a pilot blaming procedure for a bad call is ass covering. That’s not appropriate for a mission critical role.

Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by NitpickLawyer on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @12:25AM (#42113038)
> Also, a pilot blaming procedure for a bad call is ass covering.

Huh, is that a specific thing for military pilots? Just watched the latest MentourPilot's video and there the french equivalent of the FAA found that the pilots were told to improvise too much, and should have followed the procedures better.

Isn't this a catch22 with hindsight based judgement?

Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by db48x on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @12:49AM (#42113132)
Somewhere in the middle. You don't want to turn your brain off and bail out of a perfectly good airplane, but at the same time if the very first step of the checklist says “LAND ASAP” in giant red letters then maybe you should just divert to your alternate and land.
Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by lupusreal on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @05:29AM (#42114348)
The prime rule, which supersedes all others, is to not have shit go wrong. That's more important than following any of the other rules; if you follow all the other rules, the rules which you think are important because they're written down, but miss on the prime rule, then your ass is in trouble. Even if it doesn't end your career, it will still hurt it.

When things really matter the foremost objective is never "follow the rules so your ass is covered", it's to not have a situation where that ass covering is relevant in the first place. Outcomes matter more than preforming according to the book.

Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by GolfPopper on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @01:16AM (#42113242)
>It’s a new plane!

The F-35B has been operational with the US Marie Corps since June 2015.

Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by ceejayoz on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @06:50AM (#42114787)
Which makes it a new plane, considering the same organization flies planes from the 1950s too.
Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by bawolff on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @02:01AM (#42113417)
> Also, a pilot blaming procedure for a bad call is ass covering

Ultimately pilots are humans, being asked to make split second decisions. A certain percent of the time decisions are going to be bad. That is why we have procedures. In pretty much every other field we recognize that. Ignoring that fact is incompetence on the part of military command.

There are of course situations that cannot be covered by procedures, however this doesn't seem like one of them.

Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by s1artibartfast on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @12:27PM (#42117579)
Do you think there is no value in picking pilots that make the correct split second decisions or screening out pilots that don't?

The priority here is combat effectiveness, not job security for pilots.

On top of all this, they found that he didn't follow the correct procedures that did exist!

Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday November 12, 2024 @01:56PM (#42118450)
Yup. Some humans make okay split-second decisions. Some make great ones. That this difference is unfair is irrelevant. Nobody should be entitled to be a commander.
Re:Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that... by bawolff on Wednesday November 13, 2024 @10:57PM (#42133037)
Oh, i think there is tremendous value in that if you can do it. However i don't think humans work that way, and what is really happening is survivorship bias. This reduces combat effectiveness as it sweeps opportunity for organizational improvement under the rug.