Ah yes, Ukraine, a NATO proxy that has been trying to join NATO since the early 00's, always being considered (open doors policy, unchanged since NATO was created), but never accepted. Are you telling me that in 2014, when the bloated and corrupt Ukraine military couldn't even stop Russia in Crimea or Donbas, when they didn't even had a working government to give orders, Ukraine was going to join or get some protection from NATO? Ha!
But notice how you are again trying to justify Russia's actions, as if they had no other choice or as if it absolved them of their crimes. It's the "she made me do it", but applied to international relations. Imagine if I did the same to justify the US' invasion of Iraq... what would you say? And since when does a country has the right to invade another country if many of their citizens live there?
I don't understand your point about many Ukrainians not wanting war with Russia. Usually, no one wants war, even in Russia many don't want war, yet Russia invaded. Ukraine had two options, either bend over and accept it or fight. So far the majority in Ukraine is fighting... and you, smart as you are, don't understand why they don't just submit to Russia, why they don't all love this country that invaded them and sends dozens of drones every day to attack them. Clearly you don't understand how most humans work.
I told you (not Russia) to look at a map because you said their imperialism was "confined to areas of their own borders". Not sure if you are misinformed or trying to misinform, but - again - Syria and Africa is not near Russia. I also don't understand why being present in a country or helping allies is imperialism when the US does it, but it's something else when Russia does it. I hope it's just that bias you've mentioned, because the alternatives are not nice.
I'm not going to continue this discussion... You will, again, blame everyone but Russia for the war Russia started and to be honest I have no patience for that shit.
Let's be honest, it was a good play from Putin. No one did anything, there was no real punishment. He thought that the same thing would happen in 2022, but it turns out things are a bit harder now.
You just can't understand why would any Ukrainian resist an invasion force, that's why for you they're just fighting for US interests. If you had read any history, you'd know that many people have the same reaction, as weird that might sound to you.
I have friends in Ukraine. The week after the 2022 invasion started, one of them shared with the last voice note of a friend that had died in northern Kyiv... I didn't understand anything, but you could hear the sadness in his voice. I never saw this guy speaking of Russia or of politics, but that was the changing point. Having to go to shelters every night due to missile strikes from this "friendly country" didn't help.
Another one, from Kharkiv (or Kharkov as he calls it, since he speaks Russian), ended up separated from his family when they fled west after something hit the apartment block some of their family lived in. They're back in Ukraine, but do you think he loves Russia now? You'll blame the US for this "hate"... but the people there know who's attacking Ukraine... it's Russia.
You'll never understand their point of view because you don't want to understand it. You'll keep blaming the US and praising Russia...
I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that some people might want to fight for their country. Those who are forced - something that every country does - often accept it, not because they love it, but because like their grandfathers, it's their turn to defend their land. I can see a few reasons for someone from Ukraine to fight, a Russian on the other hand... maybe for the money? What else?
Only in your head is that everyone fighting are only doing so for Zelenskyy or NATO... do you think the average person gives a shit about Zelenskyy or NATO? But the fight came to them, so it was either resistance or acceptance of a new master. You think they should bend over... but this is like a robbery... some people just hand their wallet, some try to fight the thieve. It's a mistake to ignore human nature. Not everyone is like you.
Revolutions are not made by moderated people as those are at home watching TV... so yeah, not very nice people were involved. Find me a revolution where this hasn't happened...
I'll make 5 points:
- The "Azov battalion" was only created in February of 2014, after the invasion of Crimea in January and after the Ukrainian army shat its pants (yes, that's the army that was going to join NATO).
- In the 2019 elections when Zelenskyy - a jew - was elected, the far-right party (Svoboda) only received 2.16% of the votes and only had one seat in the parliament. So much for a country full of nazis.
- It's not smart to take some nazis and make them national heroes like Russia did with Azov after their last stand at Mariupol. It only makes the problem worse... another genius move from Russia.
- When there's a war that it's seen as for national defence, it's the ultra nationalists that stand up. The average person doesn't want to fight. It's not a coincidence that you'll find far right people in both Ukraine's and Russia's armies.
- Russia started the fight and can stop at any time. Why only ask Ukraine to stop, but not Russia?
Haha nice to see you come out of the closet. Anti fascist guerillas of WW2 would beg to differ. I my self think it cowardly to hate the other guy on the opposing side just because he was thrown in to fight. Being forced to die for someone elses interests and pocket is a terrible fate, and this applies to Russians and Ukranians alike.
> It's not smart to take some nazis and make them national heroes like Russia did with Azov after their last stand at Mariupol. It only makes the problem worse... another genius move from Russia
For some reason none of those Azov fighters that rubbed bacon on their bullets because the Chechens were coming are so brave and loud now. I wonder what happened
The list is obviously longer than just ultra nationalists, but the anti fascist weren't exactly fighting for some international community (eg: partisans in Italy). They would fight the fascists and if invaded by others, they would fight them too. They were fighting for themselves and to liberate their country.
The point, which maybe wasn't clear, is that it's those with more "extreme" views that stand up, not the average person that wants to run away. The early groups in Ukraine after Russia invaded were not just neo nazis. They even had groups of anarchists fighting in the east.
> For some reason none of those Azov fighters that rubbed bacon on their bullets because the Chechens were coming are so brave and loud now. I wonder what happened
Mostly dead, I assume. For all I care, they can all disappear. Them and the "ruscists".
But you missed the point here too... How many units were named after Azov before and after the siege? Do you think it's a good idea to create conditions for them to be "glorified" since they were sacrificing themselves (whether you agree or not is besides the point) if the intention is to denazify a country?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-of-ukrainian-national...
And no I do not support Russian imperialism, but nor do I support any government that does someone elses bidding, esspecially when they force their own people to go to war for someone elses interests. Ukraine really is a NATO proxy, and that is what Russia invaded. And do not pretend that Ukraine is united against Russia. The very simple fact is that a significant portion of Ukranians supported and supports Russia.
It is good you mentioned Syria. Russia intervened to save Syria against from same fate that happened to Libya - ie US financed overthrow by Islamic terrorist groups and criminal elements. Both Syria and Libya were at that time strategic Russian allies. I think it is very likely that the US was so pissed off that Russia dared to get in its way in Syria that they intervened in Ukraine.