luuurker
If you don't support or defend Russia's actions, then I think you're doing a bad job communicating your position. I say "Russia did this", you say "what about that thing the US did". You make a good point about Israel, but then use it to minimise what Russia is doing. You criticise the west for their actions in Africa, but when confronted with what Russia is doing today, you ask about what France, the UK, and the US are doing instead of criticising Russia too. Russia starts a war and the only logical explanation if the victim resists is that they're controlled by the west. You criticise NATO's expansion, but don't see that it's Russia's behaviour that causes countries to want to join NATO. And so on.
Hopefully you can understand why I said you were a useful fool. It's a lot of whataboutism and deflection (and little explaining), especially for someone that disagrees with Russia's actions.
Says medo-bear, which supports Russia and their imperialist affairs. Oh wait, it's not imperialism if it's Russia doing it. My bad!
> but tbh at the rate you are going you will start dreaming about MEDO-BEAR
oh no.
[edit: this is a reply to the first version of your comment, not the updated, longer one.]
From that point of view, since everyone's playing the same game now, you can't complain when the west does it. It's "all expected".
I'm not like you. If it's bad, it's bad. I won't go "oh, the US can invade Mexico because Russia did it too".
> anyway lets be honnest, you obviously support the US and NATO, and you are simply having a tantrum because someone has an opposite view. what else is the point of this exchange? [...]
I support the US and NATO when they deserve my support. I don't support them when they do something I disagree with. Only brainless morons support a side no matter what... With this said, I'm not going to blame the US, NATO, or Ukraine for a war Russia - and Russia alone - decided to start in 2014 and expand in 2022.
I'm fine with different points of view, but you take it so far that you blame everyone else but Russia for Russia's own actions. That's fanboy behaviour, plain dumb stuff. It makes me shake my head, not have a tantrum.
There was no exchange here. I didn't reply to you, you replied to my comment. I warned others that you are a simp for Russia that are incapable of criticising them, thus any discussion with you is a waste of time (yes, I know this is a waste of my time). You'll blame someone else, point at what someone else did, criticise those being attacked, but never, ever, criticise Russia. In one comment you point out the Africa that the "West enslaved and colonized" and on the other point out that it's "all expected" if Russia is doing it. As I've said, based on your comments on HN, you are a modern day tankie, a useful fool for those doing shitty things. And since you like sides, yes, my side also has many useful fools... and I like them as much as I like you.
I don't know what you mean by "your lads". Am I part of some group now and no one told me? And where exactly have I defended Israel and what made you think that I'd be okay with it? Which part of "bad is bad" don't you understand?
Regarding Ukraine... you know what they say about opinions... we all have one. But Russia doesn't have any right to invade and annex parts Ukraine and no amount of "buts", "ifs", and finger pointing at those you don't like changes this. What they're doing is either right or wrong. If you think it's right, then fine, but cut the bullshit and the excuses. I on the other hand think it's wrong and won't defend it.
> as for africa, what on earth do you think uk france and US do there? also ukraine seems to be arming islamists there. what do you think about that?
A turd is a turd, independently of its nationality. Unlike you, I won't call it a nice turd just because it's French... or Russian. Do you get it now or will you ask me again if <something wrong> is good or acceptable to me if done by the west?
What will be your next "what about..."? Who are you going to blame next for Russia's own actions? Can't wait for more victim blaming!
While I'd loooove to discuss how Russia is "less wrong in some sense" when they invade their neighbour and to see you blame a country for not accepting being annexed by Russia, I have more interesting things to do. Bye bye!
And this is the big difference between you and me. I think that was wrong. You instead use it as a "it's fine because the West did it before".
You don't give a fuck and support it as long team Russia is the one benefiting while I think it's bad independently of who does it and refuse to support it.
> Everyone needs a vent, but you called me out personally whilst i dont care to remember who you are.
That's good for you mate.
> Funny enough seeing my previous engagements it is always the same people arguing the US story, pretending to be Ukranians
I'm not from the US or from Ukraine and have never pretended to be. And unlike you I don't come here to defended the actions of an aggressor.
Again, what you write doesn't get under my skin or "stings". To me, it's just dumb. Makes as much sense as defending a guy who beats his wife because "she made him do it". What's there to sting?
My world view doesn't involve glorifying countries or having double standards. This is not sports where you blindly defend your team and I blindly defend mine. For example, you criticise the US for invasions and for being imperialistic and then defend Russia for doing the same. I don't. You are incapable of criticising a country you support. I'm not. I'm far from being perfect, but I'm not that bad.
But don't let me stop you from doing Russia's dirty work for them. Keep defending their actions, their wars, their resource exploitation in Africa, and so on... blame it all on the evil west and anyone that doesn't accept the "russkiy mir".
The list is obviously longer than just ultra nationalists, but the anti fascist weren't exactly fighting for some international community (eg: partisans in Italy). They would fight the fascists and if invaded by others, they would fight them too. They were fighting for themselves and to liberate their country.
The point, which maybe wasn't clear, is that it's those with more "extreme" views that stand up, not the average person that wants to run away. The early groups in Ukraine after Russia invaded were not just neo nazis. They even had groups of anarchists fighting in the east.
> For some reason none of those Azov fighters that rubbed bacon on their bullets because the Chechens were coming are so brave and loud now. I wonder what happened
Mostly dead, I assume. For all I care, they can all disappear. Them and the "ruscists".
But you missed the point here too... How many units were named after Azov before and after the siege? Do you think it's a good idea to create conditions for them to be "glorified" since they were sacrificing themselves (whether you agree or not is besides the point) if the intention is to denazify a country?
I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that some people might want to fight for their country. Those who are forced - something that every country does - often accept it, not because they love it, but because like their grandfathers, it's their turn to defend their land. I can see a few reasons for someone from Ukraine to fight, a Russian on the other hand... maybe for the money? What else?
Only in your head is that everyone fighting are only doing so for Zelenskyy or NATO... do you think the average person gives a shit about Zelenskyy or NATO? But the fight came to them, so it was either resistance or acceptance of a new master. You think they should bend over... but this is like a robbery... some people just hand their wallet, some try to fight the thieve. It's a mistake to ignore human nature. Not everyone is like you.
Revolutions are not made by moderated people as those are at home watching TV... so yeah, not very nice people were involved. Find me a revolution where this hasn't happened...
I'll make 5 points:
- The "Azov battalion" was only created in February of 2014, after the invasion of Crimea in January and after the Ukrainian army shat its pants (yes, that's the army that was going to join NATO).
- In the 2019 elections when Zelenskyy - a jew - was elected, the far-right party (Svoboda) only received 2.16% of the votes and only had one seat in the parliament. So much for a country full of nazis.
- It's not smart to take some nazis and make them national heroes like Russia did with Azov after their last stand at Mariupol. It only makes the problem worse... another genius move from Russia.
- When there's a war that it's seen as for national defence, it's the ultra nationalists that stand up. The average person doesn't want to fight. It's not a coincidence that you'll find far right people in both Ukraine's and Russia's armies.
- Russia started the fight and can stop at any time. Why only ask Ukraine to stop, but not Russia?
Let's be honest, it was a good play from Putin. No one did anything, there was no real punishment. He thought that the same thing would happen in 2022, but it turns out things are a bit harder now.
You just can't understand why would any Ukrainian resist an invasion force, that's why for you they're just fighting for US interests. If you had read any history, you'd know that many people have the same reaction, as weird that might sound to you.
I have friends in Ukraine. The week after the 2022 invasion started, one of them shared with the last voice note of a friend that had died in northern Kyiv... I didn't understand anything, but you could hear the sadness in his voice. I never saw this guy speaking of Russia or of politics, but that was the changing point. Having to go to shelters every night due to missile strikes from this "friendly country" didn't help.
Another one, from Kharkiv (or Kharkov as he calls it, since he speaks Russian), ended up separated from his family when they fled west after something hit the apartment block some of their family lived in. They're back in Ukraine, but do you think he loves Russia now? You'll blame the US for this "hate"... but the people there know who's attacking Ukraine... it's Russia.
You'll never understand their point of view because you don't want to understand it. You'll keep blaming the US and praising Russia...
I'll ask again: why did the countries in the east tried to join NATO? Why join if there's no threat?
It's not Estonia or Lithuania making regular threats about nuking a Russian city or taking the Russia in 2 or 3 days. They may hate Russia (why did you left the part where they were invaded and their language and culture was repressed for years?), but they're not going to start a war against a huge nuclear country. They will, for obvious reasons, try to have the means to make any invasion very costly though.
You can play dumb all you want, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that Russia's behaviour and their lack of respect for other countries' borders drives those countries towards NATO. NATO was losing its purpose until Putin decided to start invading countries... but of course you can't see this as Russia can't do anything bad and it's all the US fault.
Have you heard the saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Try to understand it, maybe then you also understand why countries that were attacked then sided with Nazis and anything that opposed the country that invaded them.
Russians living in eastern Europe is a well known thing, something that the Soviet Union did many times in different places, so it's not "unspoken" at all. In any case, this is not rocket science: Mexico doesn't get to invade the US because there are many mexicans there. The US doesn't get to invade Berlin because there are many americans there. Ang guess what... Russia doesn't have any right to anything outside their borders. Why is it so hard for you and Russians to understand something so simple?
There's only one country in Europe talking of changing their borders and waging war. It's Russia. No "buts" or "ifs". Russia started a war, full stop. The fanboys just need to grow a pair and stop making up excuses for them.
I don't know man. What's to the east that makes these countries beg to join? Is it a peaceful country? Or one that sees "russians" in need of protection everywhere, one where the president goes on TV and gives history lessons that reduces these countries russian land, one that makes regular threats about invasion or nuking their cities, etc?
The US has a lot of influence, but that has limits. The good thing for them is that with Russia behaving like this, they don't need to move a finger to have eastern Europe on their side.
Ah yes, Ukraine, a NATO proxy that has been trying to join NATO since the early 00's, always being considered (open doors policy, unchanged since NATO was created), but never accepted. Are you telling me that in 2014, when the bloated and corrupt Ukraine military couldn't even stop Russia in Crimea or Donbas, when they didn't even had a working government to give orders, Ukraine was going to join or get some protection from NATO? Ha!
But notice how you are again trying to justify Russia's actions, as if they had no other choice or as if it absolved them of their crimes. It's the "she made me do it", but applied to international relations. Imagine if I did the same to justify the US' invasion of Iraq... what would you say? And since when does a country has the right to invade another country if many of their citizens live there?
I don't understand your point about many Ukrainians not wanting war with Russia. Usually, no one wants war, even in Russia many don't want war, yet Russia invaded. Ukraine had two options, either bend over and accept it or fight. So far the majority in Ukraine is fighting... and you, smart as you are, don't understand why they don't just submit to Russia, why they don't all love this country that invaded them and sends dozens of drones every day to attack them. Clearly you don't understand how most humans work.
I told you (not Russia) to look at a map because you said their imperialism was "confined to areas of their own borders". Not sure if you are misinformed or trying to misinform, but - again - Syria and Africa is not near Russia. I also don't understand why being present in a country or helping allies is imperialism when the US does it, but it's something else when Russia does it. I hope it's just that bias you've mentioned, because the alternatives are not nice.
I'm not going to continue this discussion... You will, again, blame everyone but Russia for the war Russia started and to be honest I have no patience for that shit.
The scanning Apple wanted to do was intrusive, had flaws, and could be abused. That's why you had security researchers, the EFF, etc, speaking out against it. Not long after the announcement, people were sharing "collisions" on Github ( https://github.com/AsuharietYgvar/AppleNeuralHash2ONNX/issue... ) showing that fake positives would be a problem (any alarm bells?)... which then forced Apple to say that there would be a v2 that would fix this (even though they had said that v1 was safe and secure).
On top of ignoring these issues, you seem to be under the impression that the system was only for CSAM detection. It wasn't. The system looked for content... and Apple was going to feed it a CSAM "database" to find that type of content. The problem is that Apple has to follow local rules and many governments have their own database of bad content to block (and report to the authorities)... and Apple usually complies instead of leaving the market. For example, in China, the state has access to encrypted data because Apple gave them the encryption keys per local law. They also ban censorship avoidance apps. For some reason this would be different?
If you want to insist that it was just for CSAM and that people criticising Apple are pedos or are against companies combating CSAM, then feel free to do it, but at least do it with the knowledge that the system wasn't just for CSAM, that it could be tricked (and possibly ruin people's lives), and that it would likely been abused by governments.
Since we're calling people out, allow me to call you out:
Wanting your devices to be private and secure or asking questions about Apple after their f-up doesn't make you a pedo or a pedo sympathiser. Comments that suggest otherwise can also be a bit "sus" (to use your expression), especially in a place like HN where users are expected to know a thing or two about tech and should be aware that the "think of the children" excuse - while good - is sometimes used to introduce technology that is then misused (eg: the internet firewall in the UK that was supposed to protect the children and now blocks sexual education stuff, torrents, etc).
I'll assume your intentions are good, but it isn't right to assume or imply that people complaining about this stuff are pedos.
[0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/if-you-build-it-they-w...
[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/technology/apple-says-it-is-...
You say that you hate Russian imperialism, but then start making excuses for their actions and deflecting blame on to others. If you really had an issue with imperialism, you'd be attacking Russia at least as hard as you attack the US.
I don't think you have a problem with imperialism, just with imperialism done by a side you hate. Russia can do whatever they want, even invade another country, and for you that is acceptable or not as bad. Everyone has their bias, but you're too far gone... It's a bit sad to be honest.
Ps: I recommend checking where Syria, Mali, Niger, etc, are on the map. Hint: Not near the Russian border.
Hetzner isn't the best provider in the world, but it's also not as bad as you say they are. They're not just renting old servers.
The US supports what benefits them, so I'm sure they were supporting the opposition. Russia was supporting the then president Yanukovych because that was the best for them. That's what countries do.
The protests started when Yanukovych decided to cancel the EU - Ukraine Association Agreement[0] to go do a similar agreement with Russia[1]. Now, while the US might be supporting the opposition, this decision was made by the government supported by Russia in a country that was turning to the EU for a long time (the exception was the Donbas and Crimea)... of course people were going to protest. After what they experienced in the 90's and early 00's, with many working in the EU for a while and seeing it as a better option, are you surprised that many would want to be aligned with the EU?
How do you go from a protest to killing protestors? That I don't know. Are you going to blame the US for the actions of the Russia-backed government? Maybe they were also part of the conspiracy... /s
In any case, this doesn't justify Russia's invasion of Crimea or the infiltration of the Donbas which preceded many of the horrors that are now known. Their actions and their president history lessons are examples of the imperialism you blame the US for. As someone that seems to have a problem with imperialism, you should be criticising them, but are not... why is that?
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1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine...
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs_Union_of_the_Eurasian_...