News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by VoodooJuJu on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @02:57PM (#42068382)
Still refusing to listen to us plebeians. I can't afford groceries. I'm not looking for a scholar-bureaucrat reframe of my problem. I'm looking for a solution.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by nomat on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:35PM (#42068937)
Well, it wasn't biden that posted record profits was it? It was the grocery stores.

> And the record profits Professor Weber mentions? Groundwork Collaborative recently found that corporate profits accounted for 53% of 2023 inflation. EPI likewise concluded that over 51% of the drastically higher inflationary pressures of 2020 and 2021 were also direct results of profits. The Kansas City Federal Reserve even pegged this around 40%, indicating that sellers’ inflation is now a pretty mainstream idea.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/errolschweizer/2024/02/07/why-y...

Look at this picture:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/oxfam-us/www/static/media/files/Beh...

Then this one:

https://ritholtz.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/0.1-v.png

The green line is the top 0.01%, the red line is the average american.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by losvedir on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:20PM (#42069595)
I'll never understand this "corporate greed" theory of inflation. Are corporations not usually trying to maximize profits? Are prices not normally as high as the market will bear? The interesting question is not "did they?" but "why were they able to?". What's different now, that nothing kept it in check?

I think you're getting at it with that last chart (though, note: It's top 0.1%, not 0.01%). The last few years has been a story of the haves (with wealth in the stock market) who got richer and the have nots who got decimated by inflation. In other words, corporations were able to raise prices because a lot of people got richer and had more money to spend.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by tfehring on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:57PM (#42070107)
I'm a data scientist, and my impression is that the growth of data science as a profession over the last ~decade has enabled companies to price more efficiently than they used to. That in turn was enabled by technical improvements like cheaper storage and compute and commoditized data infrastructure. I don't have a strong opinion on how much of the inflation this explains, but directionally I'm very confident that companies have gotten significantly more efficient at pricing over that time period, and pretty confident that that would lead to price increases for a lot of businesses.

Supply chain and price shocks during COVID probably accelerated this trend quite a bit - McDonald's would have eventually figured out that the profit-maximizing price of a burger is closer to $4 than $1, but COVID shocks gave it license to raise prices much faster. The good news is that I think of this largely as a one-time shock: once companies have perfectly set profit-maximizing prices, there's no room for more price-optimization-driven inflation, except to the extent that consumers get richer or less price-sensitive over time.

Quoting Matt Levine, "a good unified theory of modern society’s anxieties might be 'everything is too efficient and it’s exhausting.'"

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by pk-protect-ai on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:00PM (#42069304)
You can't win this argument, you are using too many big words and lot of text. Dems should lie as reds to win the votes over... Right?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by gitremote on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:34PM (#42068920)
We need universal basic income.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by stingrae on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:52PM (#42069186)
that would lead to more inflation.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by r2_pilot on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:57PM (#42069251)
Ok so then you change economic models away from capitalism, and towards a post-money economy. There are plenty of ways to do it, it merely requires the complete and total cooperation of everyone at once, or a sufficient transition period.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:10PM (#42069447)
> complete and total cooperation of everyone at once, or a sufficient transition period

That is almost the definition of totalitarianism.

That's how hundreds of millions of people died (either by execution, war, work camps, or starvation[0]) as dictators pursued Marxist ideals during the 20th century.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by r2_pilot on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:25PM (#42069658)
Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up! Considering your own sources, seems like that work of scholarship may have not been an entirely impartial view. Particularly, from your own wiki link, >Margolin and Werth felt that Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed, which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship",[38] faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries,[6][39]: 194 [40]: 123

I appreciate your deep dive into these scholastic studies. I always appreciate learning new things.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:36PM (#42069817)
You may disagree with that particular source, but your remark glosses over the grim reality: a heck of a lot of people died under socialism, more than the entire body count arising from World War 2.

When an idea has resulted in the deaths of a significant portion of the world's population at the time, it's healthy to regard it (and similar ideas) with a bit of skepticism.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by r2_pilot on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:51PM (#42070037)
>You may disagree with that particular source, but your remark glosses over the grim reality: a heck of a lot of people died under socialism, more than the entire body count arising from World War 2.

I'm specifically trying to avoid the whole "no true Scottsman" argument by saying these aren't necessarily examples of how an actually functional communism economy would be, but I do wish you could be consistent with your terminology as socialism and communism are distinctly different ideas. I'd also like to emphasize the mild sarcasm when I used words such as "merely" and "complete and total cooperation",to close out this conversation which I have little more to contribute to.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:59PM (#42070139)
Sounds like this is academic to you; it's visceral to me.

"If only every single person would..." is not how you create policy where people are actually free.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by r2_pilot on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:16PM (#42070345)
I must have missed the part where, at birth, I signed the social contract saying that I approve of the governance and monetary policy. That, or I'm not free.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:36PM (#42071857)
You're still free to leave, unlike citizens under socialism.

(Seriously, have you read about all the escape attempts over the Berlin Wall?)

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by disgruntledphd2 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @05:11AM (#42075322)
Ah yes, the Great Wall of Norway is noted for it's troops and shootings of anyone looking for some winter sun.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Thursday November 07, 2024 @07:08AM (#42075940)
Not sure what Norway has to do with East Germany. Very antithetical governments.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by disgruntledphd2 on Thursday November 07, 2024 @08:29AM (#42076477)
It was the mismatch between Communism (typically totalitarian) and socialism (generally somewhat market based) that I was calling out.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Thursday November 07, 2024 @11:03AM (#42077837)
Understood. I think those terms are so easily confused.

Philosophically, communism is the goal of Marxist theory -- where no ruling class even exists, ownership of the means of production doesn't exist, and everyone shares everything.

Socialism as a form of government (and not socialist economic policy within a republic or democracy) is an intentional, totalitarian stepping stone to that theoretical end goal. When I said "socialism" I meant these totalitarian governments and not anything that exists in northern Europe today. The communist parties of the "communist" (but really socialist) nations of the 20th century promised that the socialist totalitarianism was a stepping-stone and that it would be temporary until true communism was achieved (which has only ever actually occurred in small religious communities like monasteries, and which are often subsidized from the outside anyway). Those promises of temporary totalitarianism were part of how the dictators gained power.

What we call "socialist" economic policy (like the nationalized services in many European nations today) is an entirely separate and mostly unrelated issue (to me at least). I think many Americans' concern here is not a fear of totalitarianism (at least not as an immediate consequence), but that the more things are nationalized, the less freedom people have to choose where their money goes, and the less efficient the economy becomes -- but that's all entirely distinct from and unrelated to the evils of Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.

The only modern, truly "socialist" nation I know of is North Korea.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by disgruntledphd2 on Friday November 08, 2024 @05:38AM (#42085809)
> What we call "socialist" economic policy (like the nationalized services in many European nations today) is an entirely separate and mostly unrelated issue (to me at least).

Look, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but that's a pretty weird definition of socialism which seems likely to perpetuate confusion and disagreement with people who don't share your definition.

If you want to keep using the word like that, I'd suggest defining it the first time you use it.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Friday November 08, 2024 @08:21AM (#42086642)
My definition appears in the dictionary, so I don't think it can be that weird:

> 3. (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

Thanks for the feedback though. I'll try to define my terms more carefully in the future.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by disgruntledphd2 on Monday November 11, 2024 @06:32AM (#42106391)
> 3. (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

Ah now, that's clearly not how the world is commonly defined, given that it's the third definition with a parenthesis.

But anyways, all good, not that big a deal (although you're likely to have confusion around this term in the future).

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by daveguy on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:34PM (#42069790)
Well, we did just elect a totalitarian so that's good, right?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by TimTheTinker on Thursday November 07, 2024 @04:47PM (#42081445)
Comparing Trump to a 20th century totalitarian just seems rich.

It was the liberals who wanted to put unvaccinated people in internment camps and/or prison in 2022.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by gitremote on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:39PM (#42069870)
People talk about "inflation" and the "economy", but it's a proxy for what they really care about, not being able to afford groceries. Universal basic income address the real problem.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by valval on Thursday November 07, 2024 @03:34AM (#42074788)
Redistributing wealth doesn’t seem like a good or moral solution for anything.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by squidsoup on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:25PM (#42068790)
The solution is to stop the redistribution of wealth to the billionaire class. Something that is not going to happen under any American administration.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by jcgrillo on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:57PM (#42069253)
You don't need an administration to make it happen, just a tiny fraction of the electorate sufficiently organized and radicalized. Not advocating for that option, just pointing out that it is entirely a possibility.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by drawkward on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @03:30PM (#42068874)
cries 2016 Sanders candidacy tears
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by raddan on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:25PM (#42069674)
Sanders correctly identifies the problem most of the time, and I mostly even agree with his solutions. However, he is one of the least effective legislators in the entire senate.

https://thelawmakers.org/find-representatives

Winning, as we have recently and very painfully seen AGAIN, depends on building coalitions. It does not help that Bernie is not a Democrat. You could argue that he should be considered a Democrat for the sake of party self-preservation, but he literally is not one. My opinion is that his unwillingness to declare himself a Democrat is a reflection of his inability to find and muster support for his causes. Hard pass.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by tayo42 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:39PM (#42069858)
What was the solution trump and repoublicans provided? Were just all going to get screwed even worse now
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by chipdart on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:44PM (#42069943)
> Still refusing to listen to us plebeians. I can't afford groceries. I'm not looking for a scholar-bureaucrat reframe of my problem. I'm looking for a solution.

What solution do you expect from Trump?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by dekhn on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:34PM (#42072307)
I think most people who are poor who voted for Trump expect him to eliminate unnecessary rent-seekers while also putting up barriers to free trade, thus increasing domestic spending, which (waves hands) leads to lower prices.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by chipdart on Thursday November 07, 2024 @01:48AM (#42074139)
> think most people who are poor who voted for Trump expect him to eliminate unnecessary rent-seekers (...)

You mean people vote for a slum lord who is lauded by billionaires expecting and who funelled Whitehouse budget to his own hotels expecting him to eliminate rent-seekers?

> (...) while also putting up barriers to free trade, thus increasing domestic spending (...)

You mean the same guy who sold them cheap made in China golden sneakers for a small fortune, and bragged he got all his loans from Russia?

This train of thought defies any and all reasoning.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by dekhn on Thursday November 07, 2024 @11:07AM (#42077881)
I don't think getting so emotionally charged about these things is a useful approach. Personally, I'm glad to have a good understanding of what made so many people vote this way (even if I very strongly disagree with their fundamental approach and philosophy and behavior).
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by crazygringo on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:48PM (#42069998)
> I'm looking for a solution.

But what does a solution look like to you?

Do you want prices to deflate? That's terrible for many reasons.

Do you want regular responsible economic management? That was Harris. Inflation is back to normal now.

Or do you want a president who wants a huge tariff on everything that will result in crazy much larger inflation than we've had in decades? That's Trump.

How is Harris not listening? How is Trump listening better?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by slaw on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:17PM (#42070361)
I want prices to deflate and it is not terrible.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by dboreham on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:15PM (#42071664)
Deflation is known to be bad. Much worse than inflation.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by slaw on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:36PM (#42072322)
Vehicles become cheaper this this year and nothing wrong happened. If groceries and housing would become cheaper also nothing wrong would happen.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by UncleOxidant on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:21PM (#42073024)
Only if the deflation gets out of control. We could probably use some housing price deflation. But we'd only get it if we had a pretty serious economic downturn - that's the tradeoff.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by nradov on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:33PM (#42072300)
There are zero actual reasons to think that food price deflation would be terrible. You can look back through decades of consumer price history and find many cases where at least certain foodstuffs got cheaper. It wasn't a problem.

The US President has little power to lower food prices anyway though, so this discussion is kind of moot.