I've found that the shop talk communities end up with stronger bonds and generally more real friendships vs office friendships which are very weak.

It makes me think it's a somewhat innate way to foster relationships. It definitely seems to break down walls. I've come to learn that the more a group roasts you the more they like you.

This is an idea that is promoted by the media. Occasionally it is true.

After eight years of working in the military, it only took two years before I never heard from another member of my unit. Within the first three months of leaving, only one person kept in touch (for the two years). When they moved out-of-state, I never heard from them either.

Don't underestimate the perception of what happens with what is likely to happen. I don't think it differs much between "the shop" and "the office" having worked in both. How many people do you talk to on a weekly basis from your last company?

Eight years isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things.

The stereotypical band-of-brothers stuff only sets in when your clique has been enlisted long enough to see combat, lose people, and retire into civilian life together. Trauma bonding. That's 20-25 years of service IIRC, longer than most marriages. They have enough trust to go in on business or investments together. After that long it's a relationship of codependency.

Maybe people's ability to bond is just fucked these days, but two tours of duty has never really been enough to forge those sorts of bonds. Your experience sounds about right.

20-25 years is a “stereotypical” duration for non-com soldiers?

That sounds very far-fetched to me.

Bonds forged in fire are stronger - this has been known since Rome needed soldiers. Bootcamp doesn't require sleep deprivation, adversarial leadership,and that level of physical strain, but shared suffering increases unit cohesion.

I choose less suffering at my work, I can choose my friends from other circles, thank you very much.

I kind of agree...

My strongest lifelong work friends definitely came from grad school where none of that happened. Or from research work where it didn't either. But there it was pressure and performance and cooperation that helped. It breeds trust.

In blue collar work, esp team oriented which it often is, I'm not sure it's the shop talk or the team/trust environment. Either way i felt the same bond to people making pizza 5 busy nights in a row as I did late night coding sprints while pair programming, or contorting under the steel hull of a target boat to reach a bad CPU while my colleague watched the terminal while seasick and we are both drinking diesel funes.

It's about shared trust I think. The level of casualness of shop talk is just an indicator and kind of a stress test of bonds.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It's something about the level of pressure but a lot of us software guys have pressure but don't get the same relationships blue collar workers get. I've done both industries (industrial construction and programming), and I definitely found it much easier to make lasting friendships in the construction one even though I experienced similar pressures

It's something to do with the casualness or gruffness of it that makes it better. Office environments are so sterile. Maybe it's the lack of HR. lol

Also it's easier to talk, and you're constantly moving around. Focus is paramount in SWeng, which is the same as "leave me alone".

It REALLY depends. There's as many factors in if you are being ribbed or bullied as there are in friendships. YMMV immensely.

But yes, the best way to bond has often been by putting down others.

Perhaps because it actively drives away anyone who is not going to build a strong friendship with it.

So can "corporate talk" at a white collar job. There are days where I want to vomit after hearing about "stakeholders", "action items", and "alignment". I'd prefer crude jokes to that, even if they were directed at me.

It's a little different when people are regularly talking about your genitals or sexual preferences or histories or your family reputation. And in public. And in team meetings.

That kind of thing rarely comes up in corporate america. In corp/academia people just like to imply you're lazy or unintelligent, subtly and frequently. But yeah, white collar jobs are annoying as well. That's why we all get paid to do them.

I think everyone else is assuming a different level and amount of personal insults when we discuss “shop talk”.

Because I've heard different levels and amounts of insults. It can just be some harmless dad jokes and softball stuff you'd hear in white collar work. It can just be outright sexual harassment. It depends so much on your environment that it's hard to pin down a universal "standard" .