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Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by zimpenfish on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:27AM (#42058567)
The Democrats are somewhat hampered by their focus on facts and rationality ("play fair") rather than spouting bullshit, conspiracy theories, and whatever bigotry is currently hot ("win at all costs").
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SpicyLemonZest on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:54AM (#42058921)
Unironically yes. You have to meet the median voter where they're at, even if you find some of their positions dumb or bigoted. That's why Obama spent the 2008 election cycle pretending to be opposed to gay marriage.

The party has evolved an idea that you can do away with those kind of dirty political shenanigans, and construct a rational fact-based proof that will leave voters no choice but to support you, and I think that pretty clearly doesn't work.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by j-krieger on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:49AM (#42058848)
> ("play fair")

Which is why they forced an unpopular, unelected candidate? I don't see it.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by ejstronge on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:06AM (#42059125)
Within the contexts of their written rules…

And maybe you’ve forgotten how the RNC rules were changed to support their candidate?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by j-krieger on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:26AM (#42059443)
> Within the contexts of their written rules…

Well these rules surely benefitted them.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by rightbyte on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:13AM (#42059264)
It is some sort of tribalism. Believers can't see it. E.g. we gotta remember that people were gaslighting eachother into pretending Biden is not what could charitably be described as about to be senile.

Refusing to see one self as part of the problem, fundamentally.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:03AM (#42059071)
They planned poorly with their candidacy; Biden and Harris were the obvious candidates being president and vice-president, respectively, but Biden was too old and they couldn't find a different candidate that wasn't as well known as Harris quick enough.

That said, the Republicans would have the same problem if Trump dropped out or if that bullet didn't miss.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by komali2 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:36AM (#42058676)
Also by the fact that their unwillingness to turn on their capital sponsors, who don't really care whose in power and whose needs are ostensibly better met by republicans (so long as republicans don't start a trade war...)

Dems will continue to make the mistake of coasting deeper into the right wing, picking up 0 voters in doing so (why would I vote for a "tough on immigration" candidate when I can vote for the one who gleefully promises to deport all the browns?), meanwhile disenfranchising any left wing voters left in the USA and creating no new left wing voter bloc by presenting a coherent alternative to the reactionaries.

The same mistake is being made by neo liberal parties across the world.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by poincaredisk on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:04AM (#42059080)
>why would I vote for a "tough on immigration" candidate when I can vote for the one who gleefully promises to deport all the browns?

I'm always surprised by how bipolar US politics is. There's no place for nuance or third options, it's always one or second extreme. In this case, to answer your question, maybe you want to limit an influx of new people into your country (for ideological, or economical, or whatever reasons) but don't want a full on ethnic cleansing. That's OK, people don't have to only hold extreme opinions.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by a1j9o94 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:57AM (#42059900)
How is ideological not wanting some level ethnic cleansing?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by komali2 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:09AM (#42059181)
> In this case, to answer your question, maybe you want to limit an influx of new people into your country (for ideological, or economical, or whatever reasons) but don't want a full on ethnic cleansing.

As this election shows, then, you would vote for Trump, who is "better on immigration." You would tell yourself, as many Trump supporters demonstrate in interviews, that "he wouldn't actually do that."

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by lifty on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:27AM (#42059454)
Did Trump say that he will "deport all brown people"? Or that he will do a "full ethnic cleansing"?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by a1j9o94 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @06:01AM (#42059950)
If you're looking for a quote of him saying that word for word, no. But it is not an unreasonable interpretation of the things he has said he wants to do. Especially when he's used language saying immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country" and makes up lies about immigrants eating pets.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/inside-trumps-plan-mass-dep...

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by lifty on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:03AM (#42060802)
It sounds to me that this is crass exaggeration and one of the many reasons why there is such a big divide between supporters of both factions. The whole exaggerated narrative and associations to nazism is definitely off putting.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by tzs on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @08:05AM (#42061666)
You don't see any similarity between immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country" (from Trump) and "Look at the ravages from which our people are suffering daily as a result of being contaminated with Jewish blood" (from James Murphy's English translation of Mein Kampf?
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by komali2 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @07:20AM (#42061051)
I understand you think people are exaggerating. You probably roll your eyes when people say Trump is a fascist, I imagine?

Can I ask - let's say before 2028 the democrat party gets tea partied and gets a genuine fascist candidate. What would that candidate say? What would their policies be? Can you do the same thought experiment for the Republican party? Or do you, unfairly, believe it's simply impossible for one, or the other, party to become genuinely fascistic? Perhaps you even believe fascism was permanently defeated when Mussolini was hanged? I would admire such an optimistic view!

Just in case you're genuinely curious why people say these things, it's not like we're all just making it up. Trump's rhetoric simply, to one who studies history, sounds very similar to Hitler's. It doesn't mean he's as bad as Hitler, it just means he talks like Hitler talked.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/10/trump-a...

As for hitlerian policy, there is simply no way to deport the millions he has promised to deport that doesn't involve roundups, trains, and concentration camps. It's a physical impossibility to achieve otherwise. Do you disagree? Will he not follow through on his campaign promise to deport every undocumented immigrant?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SV_BubbleTime on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:02AM (#42063377)
>You probably roll your eyes when people say Trump is a fascist, I imagine?

Not really, I don’t even give it that energy anymore.

I just move on to the next lunatic overreacting and stomping their feet.

The majority of Americans are tired of “everyone I don’t like is a fascist”. You have four years to learn that I guess.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by komali2 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @10:20AM (#42063664)
I see you're unwilling to engage with the topic, though I try to in good faith. This makes me sad and frustrated. The key thing about British and American political discourse seems to be a disengagement from political education and reality. The reactionaries are actually "moderates," the guy speaking eerily similar to passages of mein Kampf is not hitlerian, center-right are actually communists, etc.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by SV_BubbleTime on Thursday November 07, 2024 @10:03AM (#42077232)
Yes, that is the point. I am u willing to engage with the lunatics that call Trump a fascist. You are either stomping your feet like a child, or you do not understand what words mean.

Don’t be a clown and then come to me about “good faith”.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by komali2 on Friday November 08, 2024 @10:34PM (#42092358)
You've called me a lunatic, a child, and a clown.

Of the two of us which is more obviously unserious about our positions? Which is more able to speak clearly about them?

If you can't comprehend political analysis, why pretend to understand it? Just say you like the guy and if that makes you a fascist then you like fascism. It seems like you have a vague notion of what facism means and that it's bad - but the same people that you're calling a clown, a child, a lunatic, are the people that define words like "fascism" and imply it's bad. Why listen to us in one case and not the other?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by a1j9o94 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @09:01AM (#42062396)
I didn't say anything about Nazism in my comment.

Those are words Trump has used. He said the eating pets thing during the debate.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by kelnos on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:49AM (#42065101)
What, and Trump repeatedly uttering Nazi rhetoric isn't off putting?

It's not exaggerated. These are literally things he has said, word for word, over and over.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by kelnos on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @11:48AM (#42065074)
> ... but don't want a full on ethnic cleansing

That's what Trump's circle wants, though. They want to deport 25M immigrants. Generously, the number of people here illegally is only half that. They don't care if people here legally get caught up in it and deported as well.

Deporting even a couple million people will require mass raids, round-ups, and the construction of concentration camps. It is physically impossible to deport that many people quickly or quietly or efficiently.

They're afraid of losing the white majority, plain and simple. The sad thing is so many non-white people don't see this and voted for him.

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by DiscourseFan on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @04:58AM (#42058981)
Good thing they'll all cease to exist very soon.
Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by throw_m239339 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:08AM (#42059155)
> The Democrats are somewhat hampered by their focus on facts and rationality ("play fair") rather than spouting bullshit, conspiracy theories, and whatever bigotry is currently hot ("win at all costs").

"play fair"? the democrats used every legal trick they could to get rid of Trump. The dems barely had a primary...

"Project 2025" or whatever it is called? a fucking unhinged conspiracy theory.

spouting bullshit? who's calling the other camp fascist and nazi on cable TV?

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by zimpenfish on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @05:18AM (#42059330)
> "Project 2025" or whatever it is called? a fucking unhinged conspiracy theory.

How is that a conspiracy theory? It literally exists and was created by Trump loyalists.

> who's calling the other camp fascist and nazi on cable TV?

But that's not bullshit. Trump is following the fascist playbook fairly closely (as agreed by experts in fascist history).

Re:Former President Trump is projected to win the presidency by ks2048 on Wednesday November 06, 2024 @09:44AM (#42063039)
Who's calling Trump a fascist? For one, John Kelly, the right-wing Marine General, Trump's former chief of staff.

"Project 2025" may be unhinged, but in what sense is it a conspiracy theory? It's right out in the open and produced by one of the most prominent conservative think tanks.