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Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by Animats on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:09PM (#41921393)
> What is the federal minimum wage? Who benefits from it being $7.25 an hour? Not the common people.

There are people trying to abolish the minimum wage in the US.[1] "Abolishing the federal minimum wage would help small businesses. Some economic theory suggests it would lower labor costs, expand the worker pool, raise profits, and reduce costs for consumers, as businesses tend to pass off the burden onto them. Also, ending it would delay the automation revolution. At a time in which ChatGPT – the AI chatbot that answers questions – is all the rage, more jobs get lost to machines every day (Burton & Wolla, 2021). The first ones to go are minimum-wage jobs. “Increasing the minimum wage decreases significantly the share of automatable employment held by low-skilled workers,” according to Professors Lordan of the London School of Economics and Neumark of UC Irvine (Lordan & Neumark, 2015). Cost-effective measures such as AI and self-service counters become less appealing when one isn’t forced to pay workers more."

Plus, it's weakly enforced. "Wage theft" is bigger than burglary, larceny, and robbery combined.[2] That doesn't include misclassification as an "independent contractor".

[1] https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/03/10/opinion-the-case-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by baggy_trough on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:16PM (#41921432)
Those people are right because the minimum wage is a very bad policy, especially for the low-skilled.
Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by p1necone on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:22PM (#41921469)
Where are these "low-skilled" people you think should be paid less than $7.25 an hour going to live? Shanty towns? Tent cities?
Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by Jerrrrrrry on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:51PM (#41921636)
Yes.

That is where they live now, and are told they aren't allowed to work, or else their substituent welfare money they are dis-afforded (against their collective interests long term).

They can be something, and feel something, than the federal definition of "so low its illegal"

It also is blatantly unfair. Why enforce a minimum wage for legal workers, when illegal workers will ignore it (gun argument!?) and the border is open (but not for guns???).

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by Animats on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @03:27AM (#41922680)
> It also is blatantly unfair. Why enforce a minimum wage for legal workers, when illegal workers will ignore it?

Hm. That suggests an idea. A higher minimum wage for illegal workers.

Employers get a choice. Verify immigration status with E-Verify/RealID, and pay at least minimum wage. Or don't, and pay at least twice the minimum wage.

Offer sizable rewards for reporting wage theft. 3X penalty at least. Jail if the total stolen passes the felony threshold.

Now that would stop illegal aliens from taking low-end jobs in the US.

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by Jerrrrrrry on Thursday October 24, 2024 @09:27PM (#41941497)

  >Now that would stop illegal aliens from taking low-end jobs in the US.

"twice minimum wage" may still be enough for employers looking to take advantage of those who don't know better.

You can be worth a million dollars but if you are lied to, you will work for bread.

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by tstrimple on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @11:38AM (#41926141)
> the border is open (but not for guns???).

The border is open for guns and it's a huge problem for Mexico to have a country with such insane gun policies next door.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/05/2...

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by Jerrrrrrry on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:38PM (#41931080)
That is the problem for the narco-state and its corrupt policies, and shitty corrupt border patrol/customs.

Our border is open to human trafficking, domestic infiltration, and massive practically a neo-chemical weapon.

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by smsm42 on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @01:24AM (#41922074)
Their parents' basement, usually. Low skilled jobs are frequently stepping stones or temporary respites on the way to better jobs. But if you yank them out of their reach, by jacking up the pay and so forcing the employers to either hire more productive workers or automate, the same people would be earning the true minimum wage - $0. And unlike the previous case, they would never gain any experience and use it to get the next, better job.
Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by piva00 on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @04:16AM (#41922942)
I hope you're aware not only youth work on minimum wage jobs. Some of them are not going to get better jobs (and aren't on their way there), they are stuck in those jobs and you are proposing they shouldn't ever see a raise because if not those jobs will cease to exist.

I'd like to see some hard data and sources for this assumption, it's quite a big one and since you started the argument with the unrealistic view that those jobs are only stepping stones to better ones or performed by youngsters with access to their parents' home I cannot trust your argument prima facie.

Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by baggy_trough on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @12:41PM (#41926755)
It's better to have a job paying $5 an hour than no job at all, which is what you're proposing.
Re:How the Unchecked Power of Companies Is Destabilizing Gov... by Jerrrrrrry on Thursday October 24, 2024 @10:27PM (#41941726)

  >I'd like to see some hard data and sources for this assumption,
"prove that this illegal thing would be good systematically at a macro-economic level when it being illegal has not shown to be good"

  >this assumption, it's quite a big one and since you started the argument with the unrealistic view that those jobs are only stepping stones to better ones or performed by youngsters with access to their parents' home
Fuck, ya got me. Let's try the opposite: lets give economically vital careers to homeless babies... that makes a lot more sense.