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Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by systemvoltage on Friday October 18, 2024 @10:54PM (#41885290)
That seems extreme. They’re the biggest force to combat Climate Change. Tesla existing is good for the world.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by mbernstein on Friday October 18, 2024 @10:55PM (#41885299)
Nuclear power adoption is the largest force to combat climate change.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:10PM (#41885366)
Historically, hydro has prevented for more CO2 than nuclear by a wide margin. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-prod-source-s...

Looking forward Nuclear isn’t moving the needle. Solar grew more in 2023 alone than nuclear has grown since 1995. Worse nuclear can’t ramp up significantly in the next decade simply due to construction bottlenecks. 40 years ago nuclear could have played a larger role, but we wasted that opportunity.

It’s been helpful, but suggesting it’s going to play a larger role anytime soon is seriously wishful thinking at this point.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by UltraSane on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:21PM (#41885405)
That just goes to show how incredibly short sighted humanity is. We new about the risk of massive CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels but just ignored it while irrationally demonizing nuclear energy because it is scawy. If humans were sane and able to plan earth would be getting 100% of all electricity from super-efficient 7th generation nuclear reactors.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by mbernstein on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:33PM (#41885453)
When talking to my parents, I hear a lot about Jane Fonda and the China Syndrome as far as the fears of nuclear power.

She's made the same baseless argument for a long time: "Nuclear power is slow, expensive — and wildly dangerous"

https://ourworldindata.org/nuclear-energy#:~:text=The%20key%....

CO2 issues aside, it's just outright safer than all forms of coal and gas and about as safe as solar and wind, all three of which are a bit safer than hydro (still very safe).

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by chgs on Sunday October 20, 2024 @09:04AM (#41895117)
She’s two thirds right. It’s slow and expensive.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:44PM (#41885494)
I agree costs could have dropped significantly, but I doubt 100% nuclear was ever going to happen.

Large scale dams will exist to store water, tacking hydroelectric on top of them is incredibly cost effective. Safety wise dams are seriously dangerous, but they also save a shocking number of lives by reducing flooding.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by valval on Saturday October 19, 2024 @03:05AM (#41886182)
There was adequate evidence that nuclear is capable of killing millions of people and causing large scale environmental issues.

It’s still not clear today what effect CO2 or fossil fuel usage has on us.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by UltraSane on Saturday October 19, 2024 @06:50PM (#41891396)
Nuclear reactors are not nuclear bombs. Nuclear reactors are very safe on a Joules per death bases
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by mbernstein on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:28PM (#41885435)
History is a great reference, but it doesn't solve our problems now. Just because hydro has prevented more CO2 until now doesn't mean that plus solar are the combination that delivers abundant, clean energy. There are power storage challenges and storage mechanisms aren't carbon neutral. Even if we assume that nuclear, wind, and solar (without storage) all have the same carbon footprint - I believe nuclear is less that solar pretty much equivalent to wind - you have to add the storage mechanisms for scenarios where there's no wind, sun, or water.

All of the above are significantly better than burning gas or coal - but nuclear is the clear winner from an CO2 and general availability perspective.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:54PM (#41885536)
Seriously scaling nuclear would involve batteries. Nuclear has issues being cost effective at 80+% capacity factors. When you start talking sub 40% capacity factors the cost per kWh spirals.

The full cost of operating a multiple nuclear reactor for just 5 hours per day just costs more than a power plant at 80% capacity factor charging batteries.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by mbernstein on Saturday October 19, 2024 @12:11AM (#41885579)
> Seriously scaling nuclear would involve batteries. Nuclear has issues being cost effective at 80+% capacity factors.

I assume you mean that sub 80% capacity nuclear has issues being cost effective (which I agree is true).

You could pair the baseload nuclear with renewables during peak times and reduce battery dependency for scaling and maintaining higher utilization.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Saturday October 19, 2024 @12:31AM (#41885648)
I meant even if you’re operating nuclear as baseload power looking forward the market rate for electricity looks rough without significant subsidies.

Daytime you’re facing solar head to head which is already dropping wholesale rates. Off peak is mostly users seeking cheap electricity so demand at 2AM is going to fall if power ends up cheaper at noon. Which means nuclear needs to make most of its money from the duck curve price peaks. But batteries are driving down peak prices.

Actually cheap nuclear would make this far easier, but there’s no obvious silver bullet.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by dylan604 on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:31PM (#41885448)
> Historically, hydro has

done harm to the ecosystems where they are installed. This is quite often overlooked and brushed aside.

There is no single method of generating electricity without downsides.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:57PM (#41885545)
We’ve made dams long before we knew about electricity. At which point tacking hydropower to a dam that would exist either way has basically zero environmental impact.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by dylan604 on Saturday October 19, 2024 @03:05PM (#41889861)
I just don't get the premise of your argument. Are you honestly saying that stopping the normal flow of water has no negative impact on the ecosystem? What about the area behind the dam that is now flooded? What about the area in front of the dam where there is now no way to traverse back up stream?

Maybe your just okay and willing to accept that kind of change. That's fine, just as some people are okay with the risk of nuclear, the use of land for solar/wind. But to just flat out deny that it has impact is just dishonest discourse at best

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Saturday October 19, 2024 @04:48PM (#41890678)
It’s the same premise as rooftop solar. You’re building a home anyway so adding solar panels to the roof isn’t destroying pristine habitat.

People build dams for many reasons not just electricity.

Having a reserve of rainwater is a big deal in California, Texas, etc. Letting millions of cubic meters more water flow into the ocean would make the water problems much worse in much of the world. Flood control is similarly a serious concern. Blaming 100% of the issues from dams on Hydropower is silly if outlawing hydropower isn’t going to remove those dams.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by chgs on Sunday October 20, 2024 @09:02AM (#41895104)
You are asserting building a dam has downsides. That’s correct (there are upsides too - flood control, fresh water storage etc)

However you are conflating dam building with hydro generation.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by masklinn on Sunday October 20, 2024 @07:21AM (#41894615)
> Historically, hydro has prevented for more CO2 than nuclear by a wide margin.

Hydro is not evenly distributed and mostly tapped out outside of a few exceptions. Hydro literally can not solve the issue.

Even less so as AGW starts running meltwater sources dry.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by Retric on Sunday October 20, 2024 @07:36AM (#41894677)
I wasn’t imply it would, just covering the very short term.

Annual production from nuclear is getting passed by wind in 2025 and possibly 2024. So just this second it’s possibly #1 among wind, solar and nuclear but they are all well behind hydro.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by porphyra on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:37PM (#41885469)
I think solar is a lot cheaper than nuclear, even if you factor in battery storage.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by ivewonyoung on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:09PM (#41885358)
Are you proposing that cars should have nuclear reactors in them?

Teslas run great on nuclear power, unlike fossil fuel ICE cars.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by mbernstein on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:23PM (#41885413)
Of course not.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by ivewonyoung on Saturday October 19, 2024 @12:13AM (#41885588)
In a world where nuclear power helped with climate change, would also be a world where Teslas would eliminate a good chunk of harmful pollution by allowing cars to be moved by nuclear, so not sure what point you were trying to make.

Even at this minute, Teslas are moving around powered by nuclear power.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by dylan604 on Friday October 18, 2024 @11:32PM (#41885451)
Why not? We just need to use Mr Fusion in everything

https://backtothefuture.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Fusion

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by gamblor956 on Saturday October 19, 2024 @12:59AM (#41885742)
Every year Musk personally flies enough in his private jet to undo the emissions savings of over 100,000 EVs...

Remember that every time you get in your Tesla that you're just a carbon offset for a spoiled billionaire.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by enslavedrobot on Saturday October 19, 2024 @01:15AM (#41885793)
Hmmmm average car uses 489 gallons a year. Large private jet uses 500 gallons an hour. There are 9125 hours in a year.

So if Elon lives in a jet that flys 24/7 you're only very wrong. Since that's obviously not the case you're colossally and completely wrong.

Remember that the next time you try to make an argument that Tesla is not an incredible force for decarbonization.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by briansm on Saturday October 19, 2024 @05:41AM (#41886772)
I think you missed the 'EV' part of the post.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by roca on Sunday October 20, 2024 @06:00AM (#41894302)
Not Tesla exactly, but Musk has gone all-in trying to get a man elected to be US President who consistently says climate change is a hoax, or words to that effect.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by enslavedrobot on Sunday October 20, 2024 @03:11PM (#41897745)
US oil production under the current administration is at 13.5M barrels per day. The highest ever. The US is shitting the bed on the energy transition. Meanwhile global solar cell production is slated to hit 2TW/year by the end of 2025 @ under 10cents/watt. China, the land of coal, is on track to hit net zero before the US. Both parties and all levels of government have a disgraceful record on climate change.

PS: For context 2TW of solar can generate about 10% of global electricity. Production capacity will not stop at 2TW. All other forms of electricity are basically doomed, no matter what the GOP says about climate change.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by roca on Monday October 21, 2024 @06:49AM (#41902757)
Both parties have a disgraceful record on climate change, but the GOP is still clearly much worse. High as US oil production is, Republicans complain that it should be higher. And Trump making the hoax claim dogma for his followers is incredibly damaging.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by valval on Saturday October 19, 2024 @03:08AM (#41886190)
As opposed to all the other execs whose companies aren’t a force to combat climate change and still fly their private jets.

But don’t get me wrong, anyone and everyone can fly their private jets if they can afford such things. They will already have generated enough taxes at that point that they’re offsetting thousands or millions of Prius drivers.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by gamblor956 on Saturday October 19, 2024 @06:24PM (#41891251)
As opposed to all the other execs

Yes, actually.

Other execs fly as needed because they recognize that in this wondrous age of the internet that teleconferencing can replace most in-person meetings. Somehow, only a supposed technology genius like Elon Musk thinks that in-person meetings required for everything.

Other execs also don't claim to be trying to save the planet while doing everything in their power to exploit its resources or destroy natural habitats.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by gitaarik on Saturday October 19, 2024 @12:32PM (#41888799)
As I understand, electric cars are more polluting than non-electric, because first of all manufacturing and resources footprint is larger, but also because they are heavier (because of the batteries), the tires wear down much faster, needing more tire replacement, which is so significantly much that their emission free-ness doesn't compensate for it.

Besides, electric vehicles still seem to be very impractical compared to normal cars, because they can't drive very far without needing a lengthy recharge.

So I think the eco-friendliness of electric vehicles is maybe like the full self-driving system: nice promises but no delivery.

Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by theyinwhy on Saturday October 19, 2024 @03:10PM (#41889911)
That has been falsified by more studies than I can keep track of. And yes, if you charge your electric with electricity produced by oil, the climate effect will be non-optimal.
Re:US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software in 2.4M cars... by djaychela on Saturday October 19, 2024 @06:53PM (#41891411)
Pretty much everything you've said here isn't true. You are just repeating tropes that are fossil fuel industry FUD.