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A comment on Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC. Parent comment

Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by insane_dreamer on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @12:13AM (#41575725)
TSMC is ahead because it adopted ASML's EUV tech earlier than Intel (huge blunder by Intel). The real tech breakthroughs came from ASML, and Intel now has that technology too (and is trying to leapfrog TSMC by being the first to get the new High-NA EUV from ASML, though it won't actually producing sub-3nm chips with it until 2025 or maybe 2026).
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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by KK7NIL on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @12:26AM (#41575782)
> TSMC is ahead because it adopted ASML's EUV

Depends what you mean by "adopted". Pretty sure Intel had EUV prototypes before TSMC (or at least very close), but it was slower to transition its high volume production to it due to execution issues.

> The real tech breakthroughs came from ASML

I know this how the media portrays it now a days but there's so much more to semiconductor manufacturing than lithography, especially since the serious slowdown of lithography scaling with around 193 and 193i litho.

Great example is GlobalFoundry which sent its EUV machine back because it realized it could not compete on the R&D needed to keep up with the other foundries.

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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by insane_dreamer on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @03:22PM (#41584302)
> Depends what you mean by "adopted".

by that I mean shipping production chips leveraging EUV

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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by 0x457 on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @05:14PM (#41585611)
> Depends what you mean by "adopted". Pretty sure Intel had EUV prototypes before TSMC (or at least very close), but it was slower to transition its high volume production to it due to execution issues.

EUV by ASML was not possible until there was a technology to create focusing lenses for it. Intel decided not to "wait" and use their existing technology to beat everyone.

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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by wtallis on Thursday September 19, 2024 @03:00AM (#41589311)
Wasn't the limitation more about light sources? And don't EUV machines use mirrors rather than lenses?
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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by HarHarVeryFunny on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @08:05AM (#41578692)
There was recent news of Japan (OIST) developing a new more efficient type of EUV, and also of Canon having a new alternate "nanoimprint" chip manufacturing technology.

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/japanese-scientis...

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/new-stamping-chip...

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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by KK7NIL on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @11:45AM (#41581272)
Japan has been working on EUV for a long time but is very far from a working machine, despite developing IP. Notice how that article only mentions simulation tests; very very far from getting all the pieces needed for EUV litho.

On the nanoprint technology: as far as I understand it, this will have economic advantages in trailing nodes but is not currently seen as a way to scale past EUV.

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Re:Apple Mobile Processors Are Now Made in America. By TSMC by insane_dreamer on Wednesday September 18, 2024 @03:22PM (#41584312)
They're working on it, but for some time now ASML has been the only game in town
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