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Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by sph on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:36AM (#41518415)
It is more and more crucial that Europe, while remaining a stolid ally to the US, tries not to be fully involved in American (economic) wars, propaganda and protectionism. We have been fully dependent on them, now it is time to be good mates, but each with separate domestic and foreign policies. If Republicans win next year, this is not gonna get any better.
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by Saturnial22 on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:48AM (#41518486)
Europe has plenty of its own propaganda to spread. Aren't you busy locking up indigenous people for years for saying mean facts on the internet?
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by benterix on Thursday September 12, 2024 @04:13AM (#41518638)
> Aren't you busy locking up indigenous people for years for saying mean facts on the internet?

As an European, I have problems understanding what you mean - could you clarify?

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by thefounder on Thursday September 12, 2024 @04:47AM (#41518820)
I think it’s about hate speech but the OP doesn’t know that UK!= EU.

For example in the UK you may get jail time if you say a transgender girl is actually boy or whatever. See here one famous case: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna146065

That being said free speech is being eroded in the EU as well but the UK is “leading” that.

For example the EU tries for some time to mandate backdoors into encrypted chat applications.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by zimpenfish on Thursday September 12, 2024 @10:28AM (#41521419)
> you may get jail time if you say a transgender girl is actually boy or whatever. See here one famous case

"J.K. Rowling will not be arrested for comments about transgender women"

That's a famous (non-)case which completely disproves your assertion though.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by tim333 on Thursday September 12, 2024 @06:49PM (#41526439)
Indeed the "locking up indigenous people for years for saying mean facts on the internet" in the UK seems basically fictional. Have there been real any cases of that? Whenever you read Americans say the awful brits locked someone up for saying nasty things you find it's actually something like saying things plus assaulting a police officer or similar.
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by zimpenfish on Friday September 13, 2024 @05:46AM (#41529611)
> Have there been real any cases of that?

I don't think there has. There's definitely been people locked up for tweeting[1] but that was less "mean" and more "overt racism".

(Before the Public Order Act 1986[2], Section 5 was amended in 2013, people were able to be charged for "insults" which was clearly ludicrous.)

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar/27/student-jailed-fa...

[2] Yet another thing to thank Thatcher for. Who, ironically, is probably a hero of the kind of people who go around saying things like "the left will lock you up for saying mean things."

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by thefounder on Friday September 13, 2024 @12:01PM (#41532447)
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by thefounder on Friday September 13, 2024 @12:18PM (#41532614)
After stating that she was “completely sure that he knew racial hatred would be stirred up” as a result of his “utterly repulsive, racist and shocking posts that have no place in civilised society, including on social media”, HH Judge Lucking sentenced Kay to three years and two months in prison. Detective Chief Superintendent Rich Tompkins said: “I hope this case sends a very clear message to people who think they can hide behind a screen and publish hateful, racially prejudiced posts without consequence.
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by thefounder on Friday September 13, 2024 @08:58AM (#41530834)
Well, the law is there. How it applies it’s a different thing. Here is one fresh that actually got jail time for posting mean stuff https://www.northants.police.uk/news/northants/news/in-court...
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by zimpenfish on Saturday September 14, 2024 @01:31AM (#41537684)
> posting mean stuff

"inflammatory posts on social media calling for hotels housing asylum seekers to be set alight"

I dunno, I think there's a bit of a gap between "mean stuff" and "racial hatred with an incitement to murder".

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by thefounder on Saturday September 14, 2024 @07:58AM (#41539239)
Right…and 3 years prison for that. The gap got pretty narrower. I think half of the gaming communities should be put in jail under this law.

Saying a trans women is a boy is also gender hatred with possible catastrophic harm (as we know the suicide rate is pretty high on trans people). To be honest I would not be surprised at all to see people in jail for what JK Rowling said.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by zimpenfish on Saturday September 14, 2024 @08:26AM (#41539371)
> To be honest I would not be surprised at all to see people in jail for what JK Rowling said.

Ok but she wasn't even charged which suggests that people aren't going to be going to jail for saying what she said. I don't get how you take "she said some horrible stuff and wasn't charged" to "people will go to jail for saying the same thing" because there's no evidence or logical connection between the two stances.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by jajko on Thursday September 12, 2024 @04:04AM (#41518588)
> Europe has plenty of its own propaganda to spread. Aren't you busy locking up indigenous people for years for saying mean facts on the internet?

Ignoring primitive racist aspects of the comments, no Europe as a whole (but lets say EU, Switzerland nor Norway don't care about this at all) doesn't have any force to speak of it can project, any clear plans for any military nor economical expansion of its influence outside its boundaries.

In contrary, we are currently weak (and eventually will get steamrolled by powerplayers from the east), undecisive, busy destroying some of the powerhouses of our economies like car industry. Germany is still terrified to the core for the sins of their grandfathers so would prefer half of Europe burning than do a nanometer aggressive move, and its the strongest voice on whole bloc - just look at how little they are actually helping Ukraine and how effectively they block any bigger attempts of other states. Heck they are trying to circumvent 2% GDP yearly NATO requirement to include highways maintenance costs in it, thus Wehrmacht is a joke - ie Polish army would steamroll them all any day, poles took a hard lesson from russian atrocities done on them in the past and finance army correspondingly.

Its sad to watch it, German population deserves much better leadership since competence is there. Not even digging into other big states like France with its own big issues, but at least they don't neglect military and are the only ones with nukes.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by throw310822 on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:49AM (#41518497)
> while remaining a stolid ally to the US

nice typo

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by cced on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:55AM (#41518527)
> From Middle French stolide, ‘stolid’…

> calm and not emotional

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by throw310822 on Thursday September 12, 2024 @04:15AM (#41518653)
You're right, I've always misinterpreted the word, it's more neutral than I thought!

It comes from the Latin stolidus: “inert, dull, stupid”. So it's a strange case of a word with initially negative connotations that becomes somewhat neutral. Although Oxford Languages (Google's source) lists also "bovine", "lethargic", "torpid" and "stupid" as similar words, after "impassive", "unemotional" and "calm".

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by elefanten on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:56AM (#41518536)
Rofl. Guess Europe needs yet *another* lesson in what doing business with ethnonationalist totalitarians brings. Hitler’s Germany… Soviet Union… Putin’s Russia… and the lesson’s still hazy. Surely, Xi’s China will be different!
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by sph on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:58AM (#41518549)
Classic "with us or against us" mentality. I will remind you that nowhere in my comment I suggested to get in bed with Putin or Jinping. I am just saying we should probably not get too deeply involved with US either, though still being close friends with them.
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by elefanten on Thursday September 12, 2024 @06:07AM (#41519213)
You presume too much about which “us” I represent here.

But the posted piece is a (deeply polemic) piece about a policy intending to warn the international community about CCP influence ops. And your take is “woah, let’s look out for America though”

Sorry, but that points in a silly direction for Europe. But time will tell. Yet again.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by lostmsu on Thursday September 12, 2024 @10:16AM (#41521281)
Some relevant reading to support this point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by pragmomm on Thursday September 12, 2024 @03:58AM (#41518546)
Europe's past foreign policy, which relied on Russia and China, is what got them into trouble now. They should be more aligned with US, which they finally realized.

NATO chief urges China to stop supporting Russia's war in Ukraine https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-chief-urges-china-...

How China helps keep Russia's economy afloat https://www.dw.com/en/how-china-is-helping-keep-the-russian-...

Keeping America close, Russia down, and China far away: How Europeans navigate a competitive world https://ecfr.eu/publication/keeping-america-close-russia-dow...

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by benterix on Thursday September 12, 2024 @04:18AM (#41518678)
I partly agree with you because Europe is not a monolith. The countries that decided to depend on Russia most weren't its direct neighbors. Basically all countries that share the border with Russia warned the rest that Putin can't be trusted. But all in, he managed to somehow deceive everybody, including the USA, into thinking that although it's an authoritarian state, it's somewhat civilized and we can do business with them.

So with Russia, we're past that rude awakening moment. With China, it hasn't happened yet.

Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by lostmsu on Thursday September 12, 2024 @10:18AM (#41521305)
He didn't even fool Trump who introduced sanctions against Russian gas counter to German politicians wishes. What does it say about European politicians who did nothing of the sort?
Re:House passes $1.6B to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas by lenkite on Thursday September 12, 2024 @06:17AM (#41519264)
No wonder EU nations like Germany are going bankrupt - all industry fleeing since Germany now pays 4x the cost of energy to the U.S.