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Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by Leherenn on Friday September 06, 2024 @05:02AM (#41464325)
Depends where you are. It might not be a problem in Australia, but it very much is here in Switzerland. Space is at a premium, and NIMBYISM very strong (and includes not in my mountains).

Most of the costs of building a solar plant is the years of bureaucracy, and the majority of projects (the ones that get built that is) end up massively reduced in scope. So more expensive but more efficient panels are a boon, and won't change much in the total price.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by ggm on Friday September 06, 2024 @05:14AM (#41464388)
NIMBYISM strong in Oz also alas.
Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by mattmaroon on Friday September 06, 2024 @06:50AM (#41464892)
I imagine it’s strong anywhere people have back yards.
Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by rgmerk on Friday September 06, 2024 @06:03AM (#41464607)
True, but much more of a problem for wind and transmission than solar per se.
Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by ggm on Friday September 06, 2024 @06:10AM (#41464643)
Been some cookers claiming glare problems from solar. And a lot of "oh no the loss of farmland" when evidence is good for co grazing and some cropping.
Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by ex7820le_j on Friday September 06, 2024 @07:04AM (#41464979)
https://phytonics.com/en/home/

Good resource to solve any solar panel glare problem. Useful for solar on the free spaces around airports as well.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by jajko on Friday September 06, 2024 @07:58AM (#41465341)
Swiss could power entire nation (plus export some more) if they cared enough to harness all that kinetic energy of water coming down 3000m from the mountains. That's the last country with renewables problem.

Plus I see tons of solars here on rooftops, on new buildings etc. Colleagues with houses got some tax breaks so they poured some serious money into these and drive teslas basically for free (doesn't change TCO that much given how brutal repair costs or more frequent changes of those big tires & brakes are, but still, they have a warm fuzzy feeling about it).

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by TeckPerspecc on Friday September 06, 2024 @08:21AM (#41465497)
Brake pads typically last the lifetime of a vehicle for an EV. 90%+ of braking is regenerative.
Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by jve on Friday September 06, 2024 @08:42AM (#41465629)
> given how brutal repair costs or more frequent changes of those big tires & brakes are, but still, they have a warm fuzzy feeling about it

Regarding brakes: that is pretty far from the truth as other sibling commented they use regenerative braking.

Tires - yeah. Well, except minivan or some pickups weights the same as Tesla so it is not like out of ordinary.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by jajko on Friday September 06, 2024 @02:37PM (#41468636)
Sorry my bad, it actually makes sense re brake pads.

And those bigger cars - thats not majority on Swiss(=european) roads, we have tons of narrow roads, parking spots are short and narrow too. Roads with traffic generally look very different compared to US.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by Leherenn on Tuesday September 10, 2024 @04:27AM (#41498511)
Do you have a source for your first claim? My understanding is that hydro is mostly saturated in Switzerland (https://ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/special-interest/baug/depar...)

There's also very little appetite (and it's been the case since the 80's) for hydro anyway. Even before the biodiversity argument, simply moving whole communities is just no longer a thing.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by sandworm101 on Friday September 06, 2024 @07:28AM (#41465128)
Solar panels generally get less efficient with age. So many existing solar farms will be looking to upgrade/replace panels one day, something that generally doesnt require much paperwork.
Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by DoctorOetker on Friday September 06, 2024 @08:25AM (#41465525)
Do you know if there is a reason PV farms avoid concentrated photovoltaics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrator_photovoltaics

This should allow swapping out a small PV module and more cheaply upgrade a farm as PV module efficiencies improve in many small steps.

One could argue that one would have to upgrade the inverters at every step, but that would be wasteful: just size the inverters to accomodate many future increments (if inverter lifetime is bottleneck one has to estimate future efficiencies of PV modules, if inverter lifetime is not the bottleneck just use the thermodynamic maximum efficiency to size the inverter once, and only upgrade the PV module over time).

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by pjc50 on Friday September 06, 2024 @08:48AM (#41465666)
The panels are so cheap that it's not worth fiddling with optics. The economics works better with as little glass as possible, just enough to protect the cells. This also killed tracking solar, which being a mechanical device has maintenance overheads.

There's not as much mileage in panel upgrades as you might expect. It's not Moore's law, it's much slower, and surprisingly the rated life of inverters tends to be shorter than that of panels. Once panels are installed they're going to be left alone as much as possible (because that costs money) for twenty or more years.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by pfdietz on Friday September 06, 2024 @09:30AM (#41466024)
> This also killed tracking solar

A great deal of the utility-scale solar in the US uses 1-axis tracking.

https://emp.lbl.gov/sites/default/files/utility_scale_solar_...

"Projects using single-axis tracking have consistently exceeded fixed-tilt installations since 2015, and dominated again in 2022, with 94% of all new capacity using tracking -- the greatest ever."

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by DoctorOetker on Friday September 06, 2024 @08:59AM (#41465761)
The panels are so cheap that the optics shouldn't be compared to other costs like the price of panels but to the price of inverters and installation, maintenance,...

Look at the price for upgrading the solar farm over time, N times the price of solar panels may still dwarf the cost of the optics.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by pfdietz on Friday September 06, 2024 @09:27AM (#41465995)
> Do you know if there is a reason PV farms avoid concentrated photovoltaics?

Concentration doesn't work on diffuse sunlight, scattered off clouds, dust, or the air itself. In non-desert regions diffuse sunlight can be significant fraction of total insolation.

Concentration is also more complex and can require cooling of the PV cells. On the plus side, very high concentration can increase cell voltage and hence efficiency.

Re:Oxford commercializes its 20% more powerful solar panels ... by TobTobXX on Friday September 06, 2024 @06:13AM (#41464663)
Not-in-my-backyard-ism?