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Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by londons_explore on Thursday August 29, 2024 @05:44AM (#41389004)
This guy will get 1 years salary as compensation after winning an unfair dismissal case, and then he will never work in rail again. He'll have to pay much of those winnings back to his legal team.

Over his life, he will almost certainly earn less.

Shouldn't have spoken out. Had he kept quiet, a crush would have happened, a few people would have been pushed off a platform and died under a train, and it would be a "tragedy" - but he'd get to keep his livelihood.

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by scrlk on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:00AM (#41389095)
See Roger Boisjoly, an engineer at Morton Thiokol who tried to blow the whistle on design flaws in the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters before the Challenger disaster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly

> Boisjoly sent a memo describing the problem to his managers, but was apparently ignored.[8] Following several further memos, a task force was convened to investigate the matter, but after a month Boisjoly realized that the task force had no power, no resources, and no management support. In late 1985, Boisjoly advised his managers that if the problem was not fixed, there was a distinct chance that a shuttle mission would end in disaster. No action was taken.

> After President Ronald Reagan ordered a presidential commission to review the disaster, Boisjoly was one of the witnesses called. He gave accounts of how and why he felt the O-rings had failed, and argued that the caucus called by Morton Thiokol managers, which resulted in a recommendation to launch, was an "unethical decision-making forum resulting from intense customer intimidation."

> According to Boisjoly, Thiokol unassigned him from space work, and he was ostracized by his colleagues and managers.

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by vegardx on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:09AM (#41389153)
I get the point you're trying to make here, and the sarcastic undertone, but I'd have issues living with myself if people died because of something that I was able to identify and that was preventable, and I did nothing.

The whole case strikes me as odd. Not only did the higher ups know about the problem, they also left a paper trail about keeping a lid on it and getting rid of the guy. This opens them up to a lot of scenarios, like:

- As demonstrated by this case, the information came out because of the wrongful termination

- If an accident had happened there's a fairly high chance that the investigators would uncover it, either because the engineer in question came forward or because they think they should have known about this, and cracks appear when they start asking questions.

An unspoken rule in a lot of fields is that you make sure that this kind of information never reaches the people that could be held liable for it. The people that are likely to be held responsible at least have to make it appear that they're not trying to suppress information like this. You quickly lose that ability if you actively try to get rid of people that tries to raise an issue. So they surround themselves with middle management that knows to not bring things up to them, without being explicitly told so.

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by yieldcrv on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:26AM (#41389261)
The point is that there are many people sleeping fine or not, that kept their livelihood by not whistleblowing. solely due to the misaligned incentives and lack of accountability
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by blitzar on Thursday August 29, 2024 @07:44AM (#41389788)
The maximum unfair dismissal compensatory award (in the UK) is £105,707. Imagine if the maximum you had to pay if you stole from or defrauded your employer was £100k ...

The legislation tends to protect the paper entity 'the corporation' rather than the living breathing human.

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by RyanHamilton on Thursday August 29, 2024 @07:55AM (#41389866)
Wow, I didn't believe you so googled and I'm stunned. There is a limit for unfair dismissal. Thanks.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by londons_explore on Thursday August 29, 2024 @09:50AM (#41390816)
You can still sue the company for other reasons - for example if they stole from you the employee.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by seanthemon on Thursday August 29, 2024 @05:54AM (#41389057)
Ironically: The Trolly Problem [0] except the singular person is you.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by tsimionescu on Thursday August 29, 2024 @05:55AM (#41389061)
I bet even if your predictions are right, he'll still live a happier life knowing he has saved some lives.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by iudqnolq on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:31AM (#41389282)
He's just published a book that looks quite interesting: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Railways-Will-Future-Rediscover...
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by HPsquared on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:10AM (#41389154)
Society depends on these kinds of people.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by datavirtue on Thursday August 29, 2024 @08:06AM (#41389947)
The system is what it does. And that's the system.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by surfingdino on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:19AM (#41389212)
He'll find a job as a security consultant abroad. He'll be fine.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by fragmede on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:47AM (#41389401)
Being forced from your home and into moving abroad and into a new career might work out for him, but it's still seems like a lot of unnecessary turmoil for him and and his familybecause he chose to do the right thing.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by 2-3-7-43-1807 on Thursday August 29, 2024 @07:05AM (#41389519)
this is the right attitude - exactly.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by hwhwhwhhwhwh on Thursday August 29, 2024 @06:30AM (#41389275)
You will at max live another 100 years. Where will he take all these extra savings to?
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by ninininino on Thursday August 29, 2024 @01:12PM (#41393044)
This is going to surprise you, but having more money enables you to spend more of your finite lifespan working on your own initiatives/goals in life (whether they are financially rewarding or not) without needing to persuade someone wealthier than you that they want what you want and are willing to pay to do it.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by hwhwhwhhwhwh on Thursday August 29, 2024 @02:52PM (#41394118)
I believe there is a non zero probability that you(awareness) are eternal and what you do in this life has consequences in subsequent lives.

It's okay for you to disagree. That's just my belief system.

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by ninininino on Thursday August 29, 2024 @04:14PM (#41394837)
Ah well I guess I don't understand the relevance of that. Even if you for example have infinite time, doesn't it still make sense a person might be motivated to attain wealth in order to give themselves more freedom in how they spend their life w/o needing to consider affording the survival needs?
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by hwhwhwhhwhwh on Thursday August 29, 2024 @05:55PM (#41395682)
Sorry. I was talking about this example where the person choose to risk a financial loss in favor of performing a more virtuous act for the society. He prefered to live a life with integrity over money.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by glitchc on Thursday August 29, 2024 @09:13AM (#41390467)
Yeah, I mean, why even become an engineer? Why work in safety? Let's rubber-stamp everything the manager says it's good. It must be good, they said it! Think about your words the next time you or a relative or a friend is hurt or dies in a preventable accident. Thank god you're not an engineer.
Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by gsky on Thursday August 29, 2024 @10:47AM (#41391353)
No good deed goes unpunished sadly.

what a f..d up world we live in

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by jonp888 on Thursday August 29, 2024 @03:07PM (#41394265)
His "speaking out" achieved nothing getting him on TV.

He's no whistleblower with inside information. His engineering role is to design track geometry and nothing to do with stations or passengers so he has no professional authority to speak on the subject beyond that of an ordinary rail passenger.

The problems at Euston are well known and obvious to anyone who uses the station.

In fact, the UK rail safety regulator issued an improvement notice with legal force requiring the operator to take steps to change the situation: https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/rail-regulator-requires-c...

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by lupusreal on Friday August 30, 2024 @02:26AM (#41398179)
> The problems at Euston are well known and obvious to anyone who uses the station

Then you should be ashamed to even try to impune his credentials and say he had no "" professional authority"" to comment on the safety issue. What the fuck!

Re:UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety c... by akira2501 on Thursday August 29, 2024 @03:13PM (#41394309)
> He'll have to pay much of those winnings back to his legal team.

I'm not sure about the UK, but in the USA, most lawyers would take this case speculatively and they would charge 30% of the winnings. It's an amount calibrated to just barely be acceptable but it typically isn't as bad as you suggest.