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Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by throw__away7391 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @01:36AM (#41178518)
> if you make tech money

It is a great tragedy that the US with all its money and diversity of geography and people has only really managed to produce a single walkable city and a scattered handful of “I don’t always use my car” neighborhoods, which are always the most expensive places to live. So many cities outside the US manage to do this on a fraction of the budget.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by throwaway48540 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @03:13AM (#41178949)
So many cities outside the US manage to have this as the only redeeming quality. It's nice to not have to walk - it's not so great to have to walk because you can't afford a car and public transit does not cut it for everyone even in the best rated cities of the world. And it's not really interesting to have a dense train network if you can't afford the train ticket; then you're just angry your tax money is spent on it instead of you.

I'm from Europe but I would be very careful with claiming it's just a few cities or neighborhoods in the US. I made a list of places I could move to eventually, and it's at least two dozen, and that's just because I was focused on cities with significant tech/business scene.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by ricardobayes on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @05:18AM (#41179594)
Everyone wants what they can't have. Europeans want to drive in cities/suburbs and Americans want to walk. People in Paris/Madrid don't really value walkability all that much. It's an increasing trend to buy bigger and bigger SUVs.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by dkdbejwi383 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @05:41AM (#41179705)
> Europeans want to drive in cities/suburbs

No, I don't. Thank you.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by ricardobayes on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @05:43AM (#41179716)
Soccer moms disagree with you. In my area they actually removed bike lanes to make way for more traffic.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by sensanaty on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @06:00AM (#41179795)
The majority (dare I say all?) of European kids just take public transport/their bikes to wherever they're going, from a young age. I took the bus 1.5 hours 1 direction every day to go to my swim practice starting from age 10, sometimes at night too.

I don't really think soccer moms are a thing outside of the US

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by PoignardAzur on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @06:49AM (#41180025)
"The majority" seems strong. When I was in middle school (collège in french), there was a long line of cars in front of the school entrance from parents dropping off their kids. At some point my friend and I started to take the RER to go back home, and we barely saw anyone else.

Of course, part of the situation was we were in a mostly-residential city, so most kids lived less than a twenty minutes' walk away. But those who didn't mostly came by car.

That's in the city, though. I don't know what things are like in the countryside. From what my friends tell me, they had to take a lot of public bus to go to school and places. I think soccer moms were more of a thing there, because you had a hard time getting anywhere without a car. Less hard than the US, but still.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by itsoktocry on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @07:59AM (#41180475)
>I took the bus 1.5 hours 1 direction every day to go to my swim practice starting from age 10, sometimes at night too.

This sounds terrible. I would much prefer driving 10 minutes to my suburban sports complex.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by Rinzler89 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @03:06PM (#41184316)
Statistically Europeans have longer commutes than Americans because they rely on public transport more while Americans drive and driving is almost always faster than surface public transport since not all Europeans have an underground in their city so public transport is often a slow an infrequent bus in tier 2 cities.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by ackfoobar on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @04:03PM (#41184820)
The more people drive, the worse the traffic. And if public transport has to be stuck in traffic, then driving is always faster.

Now this setting sounds familiar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by refurb on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @06:30AM (#41179910)
The percentage of commutes by car in Northern and Southern European cities ranges from 50% to 75%

I’m not sure where Americans get the idea Europeans don’t commute by car.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by sensanaty on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @06:41AM (#41179983)
We're talking about kids here though, not all commuters.

And at least in the Netherlands, sample size of my office (around 300 people) maybe a dozen people max commute by car because they live ~2 hours away or in tiny villages where the trains are only hourly rather than every 10 minutes. I'd assume that metric varies a lot depending on the country you're looking at, and if we're talking about how kids go to school/practice/wherever, I'm willing to bet even in car-heavy European countries that the vast majority of kids take public transport or their bikes.

I have friends with kids in the (rural) North of the Netherlands, and their kid's school is ~15km away from their house. The kids bike that every day, to quote my friend, "they've got legs and wheels, why would I chauffeur them around?"

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by vel0city on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @10:31AM (#41181859)
> I took the bus 1.5 hours 1 direction every day

And you'd take that 1.5hr each way (three hours of commute to go to swim practice, every day??) over having a parent (or a family friend carpooling) spend maybe 10-15 minutes driving you each way?

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by dkdbejwi383 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @05:45AM (#41179729)
Where I live in London there are football (soccer) pitches in most local parks, school grounds, etc, which kids tend to use. Most people have such a park in a 5-10 minute walk from their home. No need to drive for such short distances. It's better for kids to walk around and experience their neighbourhood, use the time walking to chat with their friends, etc.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by vel0city on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @10:23AM (#41181780)
Where I live in Texas there are football (soccer) pitches in most local parks, school grounds, etc, which kids tend to use. Also often baseball fields and sometimes tennis courts as well. Most people here have such a park in a 10-minute walk from their home.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by gilbetron on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @08:51AM (#41180869)
> Americans want to walk

They actually don't. I mean I do. My wife does, and one or two of our friends do. But almost everyone else we know aren't at all interested in having a walkable city. They love their cars and garages. US cities are the way they are because a great majority of Americans want them that way.

It 100% bums me out, but that's where we are at. Americans that want to walk are a small minority.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by beaglesss on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @09:27AM (#41181254)
Children don't have the patience of parents. They melt down waiting for a bus/transit in snow or summer broiling heat and it becomes a nightmare. I didn't have a car most the time until I had a kid and found quality of life went way up with a car.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by badpun on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @02:13PM (#41183861)
I was born in a walkable in Europe. School was 5 minutes (by walk) from home. High school was 10-15 minutes by bus, plus 10 minutes walking to the bus stops. The bus service was very frequent, there was no endless waiting on bus stops in snow or heat. If Communist Poland could pull it of, so could the richest country in the world.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by beaglesss on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @02:48PM (#41184136)
Getting to school works but that's because everyone on the bus is going the same place.

A child can walk to say a cornerstore in the US many places no problem but the parents will be placed under arrest for negligence. Most any other place they'd like to go is most practical with public transit involving a long wait or driving by what appears to the child as a private car chartered at his convenience.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by badpun on Thursday August 08, 2024 @03:17AM (#41188931)
There are no school buses in Polish cities. I was using regular city transit buses, just like grownups do when going to their jobs.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by kelipso on Friday August 09, 2024 @09:53AM (#41201860)
Same thing in Singapore, kids from grade 7 on take public transport to go to school (earlier grade students live close to the school usually). I think Japan is like that too.
Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by vel0city on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @10:29AM (#41181830)
Yeah, for a while I used to get around by bicycle a lot (faster and way cheaper than paying for parking on campus), lots of people thought it was very weird to do so. I'd show up at the usual bar scenes with my bicycle after taking the light rail down and most of my friends wouldn't begin to understand how I got there.

I take the local transit when I need to get deeper into the city and take the bus to the city parks around me with my kids. People think I'm a bit of a nut for doing so, seriously wondering why I wouldn't just drive.

I've met people that grew up in Dallas and didn't even know there was light rail. Most people don't have a clue how it works and don't care to spend a minute figuring it out. They don't even bat an eye at the thought of moving further and further out into the burbs, into developments that take ten minutes of driving just to leave one neighborhood.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by itsoktocry on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @07:58AM (#41180464)
>It is a great tragedy that the US with all its money and diversity of geography and people has only really managed to produce a single walkable city

Have you considered, then, that many people do not actually want this?

>So many cities outside the US manage to do this on a fraction of the budget.

Young yuppies with their Silicon Valley salaries get to spend time in European city AirBnbs and wonder "why can't America be like this?"

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by klabb3 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @08:38AM (#41180760)
> Have you considered, then, that many people do not actually want this?

If so, the European city planning wouldn’t be popular within the US, but it’s the opposite. The few European style cities are incredibly attractive to live in.

> Young yuppies with their Silicon Valley salaries get to spend time in European city AirBnbs and wonder "why can't America be like this?"

Right.. and? They’re not representative? Or it’s unrealistic? That’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask for those that do get the opportunity to see functional dense urban areas in other places, especially as they don’t require anywhere near SV salaries yet are still lively and safe.

I don’t think the US will drop car centrism, partly because of the perpetual lower class social issues that make it dangerous to share public space with strangers, but you can get pretty far if you mix in high volume public transit like in NYC (or even SF BART for a smaller example), which greatly reduces the dead spaces that prevent walkability.

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by rangestransform on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @10:52AM (#41182071)
> because of the perpetual lower class social issues that make it dangerous to share public space with strangers

I never quite figured out why the US is so allergic to enforcing the public order laws already on the books with any degree of vigour

Re:X kills its San Francisco headquarters, will relocate to ... by alright2565 on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @08:41AM (#41180786)
> that many people do not actually want this?

The concept of supply & demand shows people obviously do want this, given that the cost of living in that walkable city and in walkable places is so high.

The real reason? Americans become infatuated with the latest technological marvel too easily. For a while, this was the car. And unfortunately, rolling back all these car subsidies takes a while and is heavily fought against because people hate the feeling of having something taken from them.