No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU.

The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that, but EU citizens on average probably won't be.

Meta should've been nuked when Cambridge Analytica happened; the fact that US lawmakers did nothing after that is a complete joke. Zucc should be in jail alongside every other piece of shit who thinks it's their right to mass-harvest every single person's personal data indiscriminately for profit.

The FTC fined Facebook 5 billion dollars and required new safeguards and audits around sharing of user data: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2019/07/...

> No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU.

I wouldn't mind if FB left...

That's why I said this:

> The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that

WhatsApp though?

Telegram is basically the same

There is signal/telegram/line/whatever.

Though FB should have never been allowed to buy WhatsApp and Instagram... (same for Google buying YouTube…)

Besides void would be filled sooner or later with something, hopefully something interoperable (XMPP maybe?)

Yes?

No company should be allowed control over such a large portion of private communication.

> No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU

More pointedly, that they can't be built in or run from the EU.

... and can't do business in the EU.

You know what they say: Only old people use Facebook.

All the younger people I know are on Instagram (yes Meta owns that). But another social network will take its place like it always has. I’m pretty sure Meta knows this since they also own WhatsApp.

If FB dies, we’ll all be fine.

Only if "companies in similar situations" means companies that have been built around violating users' basic rights.

You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.

BS. Lot's of companies / entities moved there because of said "millions" so you are unwillingly forced to use them as a mean of contact. And sadly open alternatives are blocked/unavailable...

you know it's possible to get through life without either Facebook or a Facebook alternative, right?

I closed my account ten years ago, and I don't have an alternative. After the withdrawal period I stopped caring.

My loved ones send me text messages of their kids. Exactly what is the point of Facebook?

My sister has kids, and their school exclusively uses whatsapp to broadcast events and other things happening in the school, despite repeated complaints from many parents. There's millions of little things like this out there. Many small businesses like repairmen or such only do Whatsapp. It's quite literally unavoidable in some countries.

Whatsapp is not Facebook, and it's not social media. It's a messaging application. Different thing. I quit Facebook -- I didn't exit every messaging platform. Yes, if you eschew every messaging platform, nobody can reach you. That's obviously correct.

However, nothing I use could be called a Facebook replacement, either. WhatsApp isn't a Facebook replacement.

Sorry, this is just how technology works. There is going to be a way that the vast majority of people want to communicate and if you don't want to use it, it's going to be a pain in the ass for you. This is always going to be the case, and nobody is under any obligation to accommodate you. If you didn't want to have a home phone in the 90s it would have been the same thing.

Of course but the argument was: "You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.".

So the notion that you have complete freedom is somewhat false…

Who is talking about complete freedom? Nobody who lives in any human society will ever have that.

So? Just because there are reasons to compromise our freedoms doesn't mean we should stop asking which compromises are worth it and saying no to those that aren't.

It's not and it won't accepted. WhatsApp will be for third party clients.

No, this is how monopolies build their turf. Individually it is almost impossible to say no to that but as society we can simply outlaw these lock in tactics.

You might have heard of the phone network and email. Both provide you with choices as to which corporations you want to do business with without limiting what contacts you can talk to.

He means the network effects of it. Facebook has locked people in via Facebook groups, Instagram messenger and such.

So many people are in it’s if you don’t have it, it’s hard to be part of certain communities.

I deleted my Facebook like ten years ago, I missed out on a a LOT of party invites.

people just text me to invite me to things. I don't want to be invited to parties where someone just invites everyone they know on Facebook.

if they want me there, they can ask me directly. My social life has not significantly changed since I quit Facebook.

if you have good friends, they will find you. if you don't.. why do you care about losing them?

Popular kids don’t care about that.

That’s a pretty glib stance. Plenty of people have difficulty finding a friend group and not everyone can be an island until they do (see the loneliness epidemic). Perhaps consider that there are other people with different life situations than yours for whom demanding individualized treatment does not work, and they may have much less choice about what technologies they have to use as a result.

I don't use Facebook but for example KLM/AF at least 5-6 years ago pushed hard "means of contact" as "talk to us at whatsapp/facebook". And they weren't the only one. And the track of thinking was probably "If everyone/millions use it then let's move away from this old pesky email"...

There are groups/communities (real ones, for example building or school) that settled on WA/FB group so while you are not necessarily forced to if you don't there is a high chance that you will miss some crucial info…

I don't use it in any manner for personal communication though…

Ok, I also live without a FB account.

But I don't go around pretending that that doesn't cut me out of social contacts. Not everyone will be as accomodating as your friends and relatives.

Possibly. Facebook has strong network effects. It is possible that nobody actually wants to be on Facebook.

yes, arbitrarily killing business people like is bad