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Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by virtualwhys on Sunday July 14, 2024 @09:32PM (#40964609)
Define wealth.

I wouldn't confine wealth to just the billionaire class; I'd say wealth is anyone with 5 million+ USD in liquid assets (specifically, that sum of money in stocks, bonds and cash).

The poorest of the poor in the United States (that have to pay tax), make around $12K per year, and pay more in tax, percentage-wise, for their work than an individual doing absolutely nothing but passively investing in the market does (10% long-term capital gains).

There's zero political will to change this because, surprise, every senator, and most members of congress, would be shooting themselves in the foot if legislation to increase captial gains tax were passed.

There's too much focus on billionaries -- the United States population as a whole consists of many, many individuals with absurd amounts of wealth that pay next to nothing for doing nothing.

At any rate, it is what it is, the American corporate wealth machine benefits, largely, the already wealthy.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by xur17 on Sunday July 14, 2024 @11:14PM (#40964989)
> 10% long-term capital gains

That is not the long-term capital gains rate in the US.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by virtualwhys on Monday July 15, 2024 @12:51AM (#40965351)
You're right, it's actually 0% with any amount invested, $100,000 or $1,000,000,000,000,000, doesn't matter, provided you don't sell more than roughly $40k, or, god forbid, generate additional income through, say, work.

That flat tax rate certainly scales nicely the wealthier you happen to be, paying a max of 20% if you hold for more than a year and decide to cash in on this now several year massive run up in the markets.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by throwaway7ahgb on Monday July 15, 2024 @08:12AM (#40967129)
It was most likely already taxed.

If I invest my paycheck in the market, that money was already taxed at 30-40%. Now I make a dollar in the stock market , and it's taxed again at 20%.

This get ridiculous fast.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by chrismcb on Monday July 15, 2024 @01:30AM (#40965495)
Wealth has a definition. It is what you own (minus what you owe) now whether you are wealthy or not is another question. Someone making 12k a year is not going to pay much on taxes. Some sales tax, maybe some property tax. That is about it. Meanwhile a wealthy person is going to pay gobs in taxes. Sure they may pay a lower percentage of their total income (and even lower of their total wealth) but they will be paying plenty in taxes
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by pants2 on Monday July 15, 2024 @01:53AM (#40965582)
Basically, capital gains tax should be much higher than income tax. That seems obvious to me. Someone working for a paycheck should pay a smaller tax rate than someone who randomly bought NVDA stock a few years ago and watched the number go up.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by nickpp on Monday July 15, 2024 @04:51AM (#40966231)
> capital gains tax should be much higher than income tax

Then you would in effect discourage investing. Investing, which creates jobs and promotes innovation. Is as simple as that.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by immibis on Monday July 15, 2024 @05:52AM (#40966466)
[citation needed]

Consider the opposite extreme, where the government subsidizes investments to 100x what they are actually worth. Would this create more jobs and innovation, or merely "bullshit investments"?

If a subsidy wouldn't create jobs and innovation, a tax wouldn't take them away.

There is also the likely possibility that the same investments would be made, but valued lower.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by nec4b on Monday July 15, 2024 @06:53AM (#40966716)
>>[citation needed]

Any economics text book.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by immibis on Monday July 15, 2024 @02:53PM (#40970436)
Go on. Which economics text book would tell me that if the government incentivized investments to 100x their actual value, the resulting investments wouldn't be bullshit?
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by nec4b on Monday July 15, 2024 @05:07PM (#40971465)
Any economic textbook will tell you increasing taxes on capital, decreases investments. No need to make up silly analogies which are false equivalences.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by immibis on Tuesday July 16, 2024 @07:56AM (#40975690)
Then decreasing taxes on capital increases investments. Decreasing them all the way to negative ten thousand percent would increase investments a lot. Is that a good thing?
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by nec4b on Tuesday July 16, 2024 @09:38AM (#40976513)
You really aren't making an argument you think you are. If you are truly interested about macroeconomics there are plenty of good books out there from many different ideological viewpoints. Most of them explain what you are trying so vehemently disapprove with weird analogies.

>> Decreasing them all the way to negative ten thousand percent would increase investments a lot.

A physicist would say you have just invented perpetuum mobile.

>> Is that a good thing?

Does it matter if what you suggest is impossible?

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by immibis on Wednesday July 17, 2024 @05:24AM (#40983931)
Can you answer the question? No, you can't.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by nec4b on Wednesday July 17, 2024 @02:45PM (#40989008)
The government can't incentivize investments up to 100x times or make negative 1000% taxes on investments. I thought my reference to perpetuum mobile made that clear.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by immibis on Thursday July 18, 2024 @10:26AM (#40995872)
Of course the government can.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by nec4b on Friday July 19, 2024 @02:47AM (#41002598)
No, they really can't.
Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by danaris on Monday July 15, 2024 @09:43AM (#40967835)
Then let's do something to encourage actually investing—putting money into a company, not into the stock market.

If I buy shares of, say, APPL today, Apple Inc. doesn't actually get that money. The person who owned those shares before does. Even if I bought up $2B worth of shares, Apple would see none of that money. It is not actually invested in the company in any way.

If you want to encourage investing, then you need to find a way to advantage shares being sold directly by the company. (And, frankly, strongly discourage stock buybacks, because that's literally the opposite of investing, and generally only benefits the wealthiest shareholders.)

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by roncesvalles on Tuesday July 16, 2024 @03:27AM (#40974319)
I wish there were a way to differentiate capital gains arising from being a passive owner vs capital gains arising from being an active owner.

If your only contribution to a company is that you've funded it, I really don't think you should enjoy the same tax benefits as an entrepreneur who put their blood and sweat into it.

Let's define it like this - if working for a company is your primary occupation, you can enjoy the lower capital gains tax from its success. This includes founders and employees with equity. For everyone else it's income tax, because they've done little else than speculate, and, well, gambling wins count as personal income.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by throwaway7ahgb on Monday July 15, 2024 @08:10AM (#40967121)
Maybe, but then let me capture my long and short term gains together to offset gains.

It's crazy that if I have a $5k loss in year one, I can't completely offset it in year 2 if I have a 5k gain. Now I can only use 3k going forward forever.

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by dmoy on Monday July 15, 2024 @10:08AM (#40968040)
> Now I can only use 3k going forward forever.

Wait did they change the carry forward rules?

At least the way it used to work was:

* Year 1 - 50k loss, 3k offset of ordinary income 47k carry forward

* Year 2 - 60k gain, 47k zeroed out from last year's carry forward, 13k is taxed

Is that not still the case?

Re:Just Be Rich (2021) by born2web on Monday July 15, 2024 @05:54PM (#40971808)
No change. It's been as such (3k) for quite some time.