I have never known a software developer who got a bonus. Rarely even recognition.

Merchant banking. I miss those bonuses

I get two bonuses every year - one for individual achievement and one for profit sharing.

You and every other programmer on the planet then?

Or, what is your comment meant to claim exactly, beyond the extremely obvious "there are exceptions to the rule" trope?

Well the original notion here was

> Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement

That as a blanket statement is just not true. Of course it does not apply to every single developer, I would even say it doesn’t apply to the majority.

It is true when it applies to the majority (and nobody said something is only true when it applies to 100% of a group because then absolutely nothing would ever be true when it comes to people). If you think otherwise and are convinced of it then you are very privileged -- and I actually envy you. You have no idea what contractor programmers go through out there, apparently.

This is too angry of a reply to someone adding their personal experience onto your comment about how the world is. I appreciate their anecdote refuting the claim; I think it makes a better discussion than just superlatives so I think you should get back to your point (which I mostly align with) instead of attack them on "just because you showed an example where my rule isn't true doesn't make my rule not true".

So are you saying my point was so obvious that it was unnecessary to be made?

I came to work over a vacation to fix a critical customer issue. The company rewarded me with a $50 gift card.

Companies have internal processes and typically can’t say “here’s an extra 5k for saving our butts!” unless there’s an existing program and money set aside for such spot bonuses. It’s a huge audit risk.

If your management is good, it absolutely is remembered and impacts future performance and promotion cycles.

I worked with a guy who got a sizable bonus (rumored $200k). The reason? An old college buddy called and asked if our technology could help their social media company with a problem they had.

So, if you want a bonus as a software developer, be a sales rep by happenstance. Probably helps if you went to a prestigious university where you met people who went on to prestigious roles...

I get recognition plenty. We all get bonuses according to how well our division does, which is developers certainly have a hand in. If you do good work, you also tend to get promotions and raises well beyond the usual 5% per year.

know plenty that get bonuses, yearly. individual performance + company (stock) performance + other variables = some percentage of salary, handed out as RSUs or cash or both.

never seen any one-off bounties or extra bonus for shipping one specific thing. usually it just gets rolled up in the "your yearly performance discussion".

obviously founders / owners / folks holding a lot of stock are playing by different rules

Maybe that depends on the job market you're working on. In some countries salaries are more affected by personal performance than in others.

My first job as a developer made me work around the clock, day and night, for a below average (nationwide compared) salary. And I got yelled at.

Since I didn't have enough work experience, my applications weren't responded to. There were no ways to improve conditions without changing jobs.

> So, why should they give everything and get nothing back? How is that fair?

Ofcourse it is fair. How can you say you get nothing back? They pay you salary you agreed on when signed contract.

> My first job as a developer made me work around the clock

Bad employer. Maybe doesn't obey the contract on their side and doesn't pay for overtime. Tough one until you level up your experience for sure.

But I'd expect salary to be below average in your first job. You still don't have the necessary experience. And when you do, you CAN find another job.

Just don't have bad attitude towards your job. You will be rewarded one day for being a honest and productive worker.

i think whether it is fair isnt the right question (which is subjective and I disagree anyway) but whether it is rational and advantageous for you. What benefit do you get for rushing a job and shipping shitty code? I think the downsides vastly outweigh the upside.

If a company is that pressed for time, theyre not going to fire you. Take your time and do things right, dont Boeing it up.

> You will be rewarded one day for being a honest and productive worker.

22.5 years later I can confidently say you are living in a comfortable bubble and have no idea what do most programmers go through every day.

I would say that their view is akin to religion. Any religion really.

And religion is not always bad. It can help us stay focused, and selfless for some unknown greater good.

That greater good does not have to exist. But decreasing the focus on self can still be good for your soul.

> But decreasing the focus on self can still be good for your soul.

Only applies to people who mostly focused on themselves.

I'd argue that most working people have the opposite problem: they have to focus on everybody else's problems but not theirs.

I'm only working towards tangible greater goods. Including my own inner peace.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I had a similarly shitty first job, although I was lucky to be in France, which was very strict worker protection laws, so "working day and night" was 'only' 10 hour days. However, after like 8 months there I was able to get another job - it doesn't take much experience for recruiters to start reaching out on LinkedIn aparantly.

We have the laws in place in Finland, too, but they aren't enforced in practice. So, people who refuse to obey them get an advantage against people with integrity.

The workers protection authorities are not resourced to do any individual checkups, and going to court against a company would take years and possibly leads to lifetime in debt. So the practical way to resolve this is to change companies.

It sounds like a toxic workplace, but you should do yourself a big favor and try to put that behind you. If you keep that mindset in your new job, your perspective will be negative and you risk burning out.

If you work at a traditional workplace, think of yourself as a professional. Do the best work you can during business hours, without ruining your health. The company is paying you to make decisions that are best for them, and you may not like it but that is what you agreed to. At the same time, they only pay for your work and not your soul. You need to keep a balance between work and you as a person.

Unfortunately there are many toxic workplaces out there, and if I ended up "trapped" with no escape, I would probably consider things differently. But when you finally escape, keep an open mind and try to put your bad experiences behind you.

I'm sorry to say but I'm very much burned out already. It all went well for a while after switching jobs, but the lockdowns and remote work ruined what was left of my life. My friends noted that they don't miss me, my company switched to completely remote etc. I can now only sleep and work, I can't even think of anything else anymore.

I did put that behind me after switching jobs.

My initial outlook and attitude on professional life was that I need to try hard and stay positive and help everyone. I expected other people to work for common goals, put their own goals aside, and be friendly. As in school, that mostly lead to abuse. I'm only advocating against trying too hard because I've hurt myself with it.

As a child, I was taught to go the extra mile, work in a sustainable manner and never blame anyone. At work, I have never refused to work on a problem because it's not my fault or someone else would be a better fit for it - and that makes me a very good scapegoat and a fine target for impossible requests.

Guess what happened? I'm right now stuck with a person who is asking daily for something I have explained to be impossible, and does not accept my answer. So he asks again. I have no idea what to do.

I can't set boundaries or take care of myself, so I'm a bad employee and a bad person who doesn't try enough. Great.

It sounds like you have ended up in a bad situation. There's no real suggestion I can provide for how you can improve your situation, other than to try to find a way to disconnect. (Meetups, walking, museums, hobbies).

Maybe that means talking to a professional therapist to find out how you can handle the situation. They get paid to help you, and there is no shame in that

They usually get paid by the hour so they have a vested interest to talk BS and prolong the session as much as they can.

A good therapist can help you with this.

If they ask for the impossible then perhaps things are not looking good for the company. I think you better figure out somewhere else to go soon because that tends to mean they won't last much longer. It's a tough market but there is always hope, try and build out some side projects and get out before your company starts to fold or you are let go. Sometimes just a change of view is nice so maybe try something different.

> It sounds like a toxic workplace

Like most workplaces on the planet. Check your bubble.

I agree with your advice but you have to understand that many people start families and that tilts the table in favor of the employer; people become very risk-averse and dare not refuse anything. This is a fact and it's happening every second to dozens, if not hundreds, of millions of people out there.

> Unfortunately there are many toxic workplaces out there, and if I ended up "trapped" with no escape, I would probably consider things differently.

Please do. Living paycheck to paycheck is the reality of most working people.

Is it the reality of most software engineers though? I recognize I live in a wealthy part of a wealthy country, but it hasn't been particular hard to be an SWE, I live well below my means.

You live alone? I have a family. That introduces a rather big difference in monthly expenses.

You just sound like you're venting and depressed tbh, if you're in STEM and working "paycheck to paycheck" then either there is a skills mismatch or you refuse to improve in some critical way that has been addressed to you already.

this reply goes for everyone complaining about jobs really, everyone has strengths and areas where they can grow- so focusing on these can lead to greater job satisfaction.

Thanks for your assumptions.

Make the company 100 millions and you are lucky to see more than 10k of it.

If you believe otherwise I would question your real life experience.

I’m not saying it’s perfectly proportional to the value created, I was challenging the notion that devs are these wages slaves chained to their desks who never get anything extra while their managers swim in money

While ad hominem is a fallacious way to handle a debate, it is a great way to determine motive for and if debate is even worthwhile.

Maybe this is a US vs Europe thing? I'm in the latter region, where I am there's a ceiling for dev salaries, virtually the only way to break through is to become a manager. It's also very uncommon to share the companies success.

Only twice have I worked for a manager who thought it was unethical to ask the devs to work hours they themselves would not work.

The notion that devs have better hours than managers is either a fiction or conflating managers with founders. Who do often work ridiculous hours and expect everyone else to do it too - and enthusiastically - even though they’re the only ones with a stake in the outcome.