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Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by pg on Friday June 08, 2012 @05:13PM (#4086191)
What a wonderful surprise. I'd forgotten about the judicial branch, and now they appear like the cavalry to sort out this mess.

Wouldn't it be great if they went after the patent trolls next?

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by AJ007 on Friday June 08, 2012 @05:33PM (#4086267)
If it was not for the judicial branch, the internet would, as we know it today, would not exist.

Remember such detestations as the Child Online Protection Act? Which, after being struck down, and the Supreme Court agreeing with the ruling, a John Ashcroft led Department of Justice continued to use tax payer money to push back through the courts?

I suspect that the differences between functional and dysfunctional governments, elected or not, lie largely in their legal and court systems.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by MartinCron on Friday June 08, 2012 @06:43PM (#4086494)
If it was not for the judicial branch, the internet would, as we know it today, would not exist.

But for the judiciary, many of the liberties we take for granted wouldn't exist. It's easy to sneer at "activist judges" when you don't like how the rule, but never forget how brilliant the multi-branch system of government is.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by crusso on Saturday June 09, 2012 @12:53PM (#4088491)
> But for the judiciary, many of the liberties we take for granted wouldn't exist.

True. Then again, a lot of evil has been done by the judiciary. Particularly with the supreme court, you have a small number of unelected decision makers who wield an enormous amount of power.

> It's easy to sneer at "activist judges" when you don't like how the rule,

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, though. "activist judges" is a loaded pejorative, but in the right context it labels a real corruption of our system that we should be wary of.

A true "activist judge" is one who gives the government new powers not explicitly granted by the US Constitution -- whether by allowing a new law to stand that doesn't pass Constitutional muster, or by creating new concepts out of thin air.

The Legislative body is where we want our laws to be constructed, since those guys are the easiest to control through democracy. We don't want that law making function to leak all over the system like into the judiciary and the bureaucracy of the executive branch where we don't have good mechanisms to track and control.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by fpgeek on Friday June 08, 2012 @11:29PM (#4087073)
Live by the judicial branch, die by the judicial branch.

It is very much worth remembering that the judicial branch invented software patents in the first place. And that the Federal Circuit (which has jurisdiction for most patent-related appeals) seems to be a big fan of patents of all stripes and has been actively fanning the software patent flames. Fortunately, the Supreme Court has been correcting them recently on patents, but that is a slow, painful and potentially fallible process (see: Eldred v Ashcroft, IMO).

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by portman on Friday June 08, 2012 @08:51PM (#4086811)
I would like Paul Graham, Richard Posner, and perhaps Mike Bloomberg to have a long, meandering dinner party wherein they discuss and solve America's most important problems.

It worked for Jefferson/Madison/Hamilton 222 years ago. This could be exactly what we need.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by te_chris on Friday June 08, 2012 @10:23PM (#4086965)
By the rich for the rich then? Sounds about right.

Seriously though, you want 3 privileged, white men to decide the fate of your entire country? I'm all for smart people coming up with solutions, and I know your comment wasn't mean't to be taken too seriously, but this is just ridiculous. Technocracy is not the answer, no matter how much technologists would love it to be.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by reader5000 on Friday June 08, 2012 @11:21PM (#4087063)
I don't believe a racial attack is in any way an appropriate response to portman's comment.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by te_chris on Saturday June 09, 2012 @12:09AM (#4087157)
That wasn't a racial attack, it was pointing out that the 3 people who he proposed to "fix" everything were among the most privileged people on the planet (in part due to the colour of their skin). This was done to try and make the point that, given past history, another round of letting the most privileged people on the planet come up with "solutions", probably won't get us very far.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by crusso on Saturday June 09, 2012 @02:00PM (#4088691)
>That wasn't a racial attack

"attack" might be a strong word, but it was definitely a racist comment. Whenever you generalize or predict behavior or outcomes based upon race, you've made a racist comment. Maybe you liked the sound of it. Doesn't really matter, though, does it?

Substitute "black" for "white" and how does your original statement sound?

You're decrying the solutions that those three guys could come up with in part because they're white. Maybe you wanted to say, "ethnically homogenous"?

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by scarmig on Saturday June 09, 2012 @03:39PM (#4089068)
I'm not so sure.

They were also described as men. Does that make it sexist?

They were also described as privileged. Does that make it class warfare?

The point is obviously that they come from the same, very particular place at the very top of the same hierarchy that's created the world we now live in. Simply because the media has chosen to glamorize those people more than others doesn't mean we should do the same.

Why not throw some equally intelligent and qualified people as Elinor Ostrom or Amartya Sen in there? Aside from the fact that they're probably a bit more left-leaning/sympathetic to the little guy than the three mentioned.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by crusso on Saturday June 09, 2012 @04:57PM (#4089259)
> They were also described as men. Does that make it sexist?

It notes the sex of the decision-makers and implies the quality of results as part of a generalization, so I guess it is sexist.

> They were also described as privileged. Does that make it class warfare?

Warfare? That has a lot of extra meaning. "Classist" would be more clinical.

Words like "racist", "sexist", and "classist" have real definitions and you don't get to apply them only when they support portions of an argument that you happen to agree with.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by derleth on Saturday June 09, 2012 @08:20AM (#4087923)
> That wasn't a racial attack

You explicitly mentioned race. It's racist.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by wpietri on Saturday June 09, 2012 @10:52AM (#4088209)
I see. And if I point out that the KKK is all white dudes, then I'm also being racist? What a meanie I am!

Pointing out the unbalanced composition of a group meant to solve society's problems is not in any way racist. It's a specific application of the general rule that humans have hard time understanding the experiences of people different than themselves, especially when there's privilege involved.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by reader5000 on Saturday June 09, 2012 @11:15AM (#4088263)
Unlike the kkk, there is no indication the OP chose the three men on account of their race. To therefore attack them on the basis of their race is an ad hominem racial assault. Furthermore, obviously the three are privileged compared to a kid born in, say, Ethiopia, but I don't see how that illegitimates them for a discussion on America.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by wpietri on Saturday June 09, 2012 @11:43PM (#4090108)
It doesn't mean they can't participate in the discussion. It does mean that if they're the only people in the discussion, there's probably going to be some things wrong with the outcome.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by andybak on Saturday June 09, 2012 @01:30PM (#4088569)
That's the silliest statement I've read all day.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by nathantotten on Friday June 08, 2012 @11:17PM (#4087060)
The founding fathers were all privileged white men.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by molmalo on Saturday June 09, 2012 @02:48AM (#4087458)
And then you had almost a century of slavery...

I think that he has a point in saying that if you have an heterogeneous society, it's not wise to put all the power in an homogeneous group.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by slurgfest on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:25AM (#4090253)
It is worth observing that slavery was not universally practiced or accepted in the US and that ending it involved, among other things, a mind-boggling pile of corpses, the suspension of habeas corpus and the near destruction of the US as a political unit. Moreover, that the great empires maintained de facto slavery in their colonies up into the 60s. So I think there is a serious lack of historical perspective when you are trying to ding the founding fathers very hard for slavery, as if they all intended it, as if this were some kind of inevitable result of putting white people in power.

I like affirmative action, but I don't think it is a viable principle for determining political rights, which should be universal and colorblind rather than being denied or granted based on race or a distaste for homogeneity.

The idea that white people should not have power because of their inherent moral depravity is definitely a racist idea.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by reader5000 on Saturday June 09, 2012 @10:58AM (#4088227)
Yeah dude white people are all the same.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by Locke1689 on Saturday June 09, 2012 @11:20AM (#4088281)
Technocracy is not the answer

Why not? Democracy doesn't seem to be so great.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by slurgfest on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:15AM (#4090245)
Well, one problem is to ensure that the people making the decisions really are more knowledgeable and really can act in a disinterested way, rather than this just becoming an excuse for a full-blown power grab. Democratic power grabs, although very problematic, tend to have time limits.

Another problem is getting your technocracy to be accepted. Installing it only to have it quickly overthrown is another scenario for getting a dictator.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by crusso on Saturday June 09, 2012 @01:18PM (#4088541)
You referenced Mike Bloomberg in the same thought and within the same context as you did Thomas Jefferson?

Thomas Jefferson's head would explode if he witnessed the dictatorial authority with which Bloomberg is attempting to control the most minute aspects of citizens' lives.

Madison and Jefferson did everything they could to allow people to be free from the control of government. They would both be tremendously saddened by how our individual liberties that they worked so hard to protect have been given away to politicians and a government bureaucracy that is lunging headlong toward mediocrity and undeniable unsustainability.

When Alexis de Tocqueville toured the US in the early 1800's and wrote "Democracy in America", he noted the rugged individualism and lack of trust in anything from the government and the elite. He wrote that only in America could the culture and nature of the citizenry insulate itself from the inevitable erosion of democracy, "But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom".

That America no longer exists. The slow march of government toward tyranny that Jefferson tried to warn us about passed a point of no return a long time ago.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by slurgfest on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:10AM (#4090237)
What do you mean by 'tyranny'? Are you referring to taxes?

Since you mention tyranny and a point of no return, I suppose your solution will be to start killing people who you find to be complicit with the government? Watering the tree of liberty, etc. etc.?

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by larrys on Friday June 08, 2012 @11:30PM (#4087075)
"solve America's most important problems."

Keep in mind that whatever dream team you assemble has to have experience solving real world problems. Not sure exactly of the connection between the individuals you choose and the particular problems that need to be solved but forgetting that for a second and assuming they are qualified there are also politics to consider. It's not as if the citizens are going to authorize binding arbitration by a group of arbitrarily chosen "smart" guys.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by astrodust on Friday June 08, 2012 @10:59PM (#4087019)
The world is a far more complicated place than three people sitting around a table can solve.

Remember that 222 years ago the entire country of America didn't even have the population of New Jersey and a budget smaller than most school boards.

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by dctoedt on Friday June 08, 2012 @06:12PM (#4086401)
I wouldn't read too much into this. Judge Posner took standard principles of law governing damage awards and injunctions and applied them to a very specific set of circumstances. The opinion itself [1] is worth reading.

[1] http://www.scribd.com/doc/96427053/Posner-Order

Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by jonmc12 on Friday June 08, 2012 @07:01PM (#4086532)
fwiw, Mark Cuban seemingly forgot about the judicial branch also when examining problem recently (http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/13/i-hope-yahoo-crushes-face...) - "Rather than originating in Congress, its going to take a consumer uprising to cause change".
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by jsprinkles on Friday June 08, 2012 @06:07PM (#4086385)
It's unfortunate that it's easy to forget the judicial branch (I do too). It's tough to perceive their actions as governing in the same way that Congress governs, but it is in fact the case. It's also great when it's used effectively.
Re:Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent syste... by timwiseman on Friday June 08, 2012 @07:07PM (#4086551)
But they don't govern the same way Congress does, which is part of the beauty of the system.

They certainly play a role in governing, but where Contress is active (in theory), the Courts are reactive, waiting for a case to be brought to them. Where Congress is reaching for power and often places limitations on citizens, the Courts (in principle) ensure Congress does not claim too much power and limits Congress.