1,200 Ancient Idols Stolen From Tamil Nadu Temples In 25 Years: Audit

All of these Hindu Temples are managed by the HRCE and they are responsible for its security and yet untold artifacts have been smuggled and despite repeated legal writs and petitions and legal cases against them, nothing is moving ahead.

Hindu Temples can be managed by non Hindus. Meanwhile, every other religion in India..Xianity, Islam, Sikhism.. their places are worship are run independently and the state has no control over it or its assets or resources.

Churches, mosques, synagogues, shrines etc. are hardly immune to thefts.

There are 79000 temples in TamilNadu alone. Most of the churches and mosques are built upon temples destroyed by the invading hordes and conversion mafias. Many of the existing temples are hundreds of years old and are heritage buildings.

The rest of the abrahamic monotheistic faiths do not have idol worship and are barely two thousand years old compared to ancient Vedic Hinduism. Their wealth is looted wealth while ancient India is millennia old.

Christies and Sothebys and the British museum is full of looted treasures.

Which part do you find ‘not reputable’ source of facts?

[..] The Tamil Nadu HR&CE Act

The Tamil Nadu Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) Act has been a point of contention due to various issues highlighted by critics. Lets see some significant problems associated with the Act and its implementation, with actual examples from newspapers in Tamil Nadu.

1. Control Over Temples Government Control: The Act allows the government to take control of any Hindu temple under the pretext of 'a reason to believe' there has been an irregularity, even if no actual wrongdoing is proven (Page 14, Clause 2 & 4). Example: In 2021, the Tamil Nadu government took control of the Nataraja Temple in Chidambaram citing irregularities. This action faced backlash from the Dikshithars, the traditional custodians of the temple, who claimed it was an unjustified takeover .

Non-Hindus Managing Temples: Non-Hindus, including the Chief Minister and state HR&CE officials, can manage temples despite not practicing Hinduism (Page 20, Sec 6-7a; Page 21, Sec 6-23). Example: In 2017, controversy arose when it was revealed that non-Hindu officials were involved in the management of several temples in Tamil Nadu, leading to protests by Hindu groups demanding that only practicing Hindus should hold such positions .

2. Fund Management and Financial Control Payments to HR&CE Officials: The Act mandates that salaries and pensions of HR&CE officials be the first expenditure from temple funds, questioning the secularism of such a provision (Page 23, Sec 12). Example: In 2021, it was reported that significant funds from the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were being used to pay HR&CE officials' salaries, diverting resources away from temple maintenance and services .

Asset Mismanagement: There are numerous issues with how temple assets are managed, including missing asset registers, undervaluation of leases, and questionable audit practices (Page 18, Sec 17; Page 35, Sec 29; Page 41, Sec 34-A). Example: The Hindu reported in 2020 about the undervaluation of temple properties leased at rates far below market value, particularly concerning lands belonging to the Tiruchendur Murugan Temple .

3. Vagueness and Ambiguity Undefined Terms: Key terms like 'professing Hindu religion' and 'acting in public interest' are not clearly defined, leading to potential misuse (Vagueness of Terms section). Example: An article in The Times of India highlighted the ambiguity of the term 'public interest' being used to justify the removal of trustees from the Kapaleeswarar Temple in Chennai without clear evidence of wrongdoing .

4. Temple Services and Personnel Stifling Temple Services: The Commissioner has the power to limit spending on temple services such as salaries for archakas (priests) and annadanam (free food distribution), citing financial reasons (Page 66, Sec 61). Example: In 2022, the HR&CE department's decision to cut down on annadanam services at the Palani Murugan Temple due to 'financial constraints' was heavily criticized by devotees, leading to protests .

Appointment and Dismissal of Archakas: The Act allows the appointment of archakas by the HR&CE and their dismissal by trustees for vague reasons such as 'disobedience of orders' (Page 61, Sec 55; Page 62, Sec 56). Example: The dismissal of an archaka from the Meenakshi Amman Temple in Madurai in 2018, allegedly for disobedience, sparked a debate on the arbitrary use of this provision .

5. Trustees and Governance Trustee Appointments: The criteria for becoming a trustee are minimal, leading to potential mismanagement. Trustees must merely declare faith in Hinduism without any mechanism to verify their adherence (Page 32, Sec 25-A; Page 33, Sec 26-i-1A). Example: In 2020, it was reported that several trustees appointed to the Srirangam Ranganathaswamy Temple had minimal experience in temple administration, leading to administrative inefficiencies .

Board of Trustees: The government can appoint a significant portion of the board of trustees, potentially undermining the autonomy of the temple administration (Page 52, Sec 47). Example: The appointment of politically affiliated individuals to the board of trustees of the Srirangam Temple in 2021 raised concerns about political interference in temple affairs .

6. Asset Management Issues Asset Registers: There are inconsistencies in the maintenance and publication of asset registers, leading to mismanagement and loss of temple properties (Page 35, Sec 29-D & E). Example: The Deccan Chronicle reported in 2019 that several valuable assets of the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were not properly recorded, resulting in losses and mismanagement .

Leasing Issues: The Act allows for the leasing of temple properties at undervalued rates and provides insufficient mechanisms for lease recovery (Page 42, Sec 34-B; Page 39, Sec 34). Example: In 2018, a major controversy erupted when it was discovered that prime land belonging to the Kumbakonam Temples as well as Agastheeswara Prasanna Venkatesa Perumal temple at Nungambakkam was leased at extremely low rates to private parties, leading to significant revenue losses .

Conclusion The TN HR&CE Act, while intended to regulate and manage Hindu temples and charitable institutions, has several provisions that lead to government overreach, mismanagement, and potential misuse of temple funds and assets. These issues highlight the need for a thorough review and amendment of the Act to ensure transparency, accountability, and respect for religious autonomy. The call to #FreeTNTemples reflects a growing demand for reforms to protect the interests of Hindu temples and their devotees.[..]

The complete lack of any supporting links, and the general vagueness of the claims; "potential misuse", "potential mismanagement", "sparked a debate" are not particularly strong claims.

Where's the reputable source for "infiltrated by anti Hindu interests" or "drilling and building within temple stone walls that are hundreds of years old and installing ceilings fans and lights"? Why is Modi's Hindu nationalist BJP permitting such a thing?

https://indiankanoon.org/search/?formInput=hr%20and%20ce+doc...

Or

https://hindupost.in/dharma-religion/tn-heritage-destroyed-g...

Or

https://swarajyamag.com/amp/story/news-brief/misuse-of-templ...

Or

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD1nfo-60R_Kn2R58RLIaNB...

What would satisfy you as a ‘reputable source’. I will try and find it for you. Obviously this is very important for you.

Modi’s BJP govt is central govt. This is happening in Tamil Nadu.

A major, well-respected news source supporting your very specific claims.

Not YouTube, not a right-wing mouthpiece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarajya_(magazine)) alleging what sounds like pretty run-of-the-mill corruption, not a website with a Gmail account (https://hindupost.in/about-us/) (which I'd note is complaining about a single security camera being added at a temple... maybe to address the thefts you decry), and not a search engine result for `hr and ce doctypes: judgments` that could literally contain anything.

There are people who find left wing and liberal media as being disreputable.

I can see that you are determined to dismiss anything that would criticize the destruction of a non Abrahamic polytheistic faith that is older than all of the civilizations that exist today.

I don’t have the bandwidth for this. I find your posts insincere and ignorant driven only by your desire to satisfy your point of view. Therefor I see no point in continuing this discussion.

>When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

>Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.

>Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead.

etc.

Inherently? Nothing... but if I cite a far-left source to support something I'm arguing you will, justifiably, scoff at it. Heavily partisan sources are rarely reputable by themselves.

> I can see that you are determined to dismiss anything that would criticize the destruction of a non Abrahamic polytheistic faith that is older than all of the civilizations that exist today.

I simply have a hard time believing a 90% Hindu state in an India run by a Hindu nationalist government intends to do such a thing. Your lack of reputable sources certainly doesn't shake that belief.

You haven’t offered one single citation of any feather..never mind wing. Except your ‘belief’ which doesn’t have much worth except to you.

Your beliefs have nothing to do with facts.

FACT: India is not a ‘90% Hindu state’.

FACT: India is not run by a ‘Hindu nationalist government’.

(Define ‘nationalist’)

That's correct; I cannot prove a negative. You're making assertions that something is happening; you should support them. Your evidence for your positive assertions has been drastically lacking.

> FACT: India is not a ‘90% Hindu state’.

The state in question, as you felt was important to note ("Modi’s BJP govt is central govt. This is happening in Tamil Nadu."), is Tamil Nadu; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_Nadu#Religion_and_ethnic... cites it as 87.6% Hindu in 2011.

> FACT: India is not run by a ‘Hindu nationalist government’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party is widely enough considered Hindu nationalist as to get "Its policies adhere to Hindutva, a Hindu nationalist ideology" in the Wikipedia article on it.

I'm sure it isn't your intent to do that, but we have to go by effects, not intent, and that is the effect that posts like this tend to have (and are having, in the current case). You've posted more than 30 comments in this thread, in the "ideological battle" style that the HN guidelines ask you to avoid here*. It's far from the curious, respectful conversation that this site is supposed to be for.

Also, it's important to edit out swipes like "I can see you are determined to dimiss [etc.]", "Your beliefs have nothing to do with facts [etc.]", and so on. Your posts have included a great many of those, and that's definitely against the site guidelines.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

(* not that a religion is exactly an ideology but that guideline applies to both)