jelliclesfarm

I don’t know, but I guess we can also ask:

Why does England NEED to be the only Christian Anglican country in the world?

Why does Saudi Arabia NEED to be an Islamic State?

Why would Indian Hindus want a Hindu nation? I guess it’s called Democracy.

Are you against Democracy?

You haven’t offered one single citation of any feather..never mind wing. Except your ‘belief’ which doesn’t have much worth except to you.

Your beliefs have nothing to do with facts.

FACT: India is not a ‘90% Hindu state’.

FACT: India is not run by a ‘Hindu nationalist government’.

(Define ‘nationalist’)

Abrahamic faiths are monotheistic and against idol worship. While not all Hindus worship idols and multiple gods, these practices are not blasphemy or apostasy.

There is a binary criteria amongst Abrahamic religions about what constitutes membership.

1. Western Europe has a dominant religion but not officially secular.

2. Only 5 nations(please correct me with source material) that are secular by constitution.

3. The secular nations are : India United States, France, Japan and Australia.

4. Exceptions: Russia for example has no religion. Vietnam is officially atheist. But the dominant religion is Buddhism.

5. Nepal was the only Hindu nation until recently before the Maoist insurgency and Hindu as official state religion was struck off.

6. India is officially a Secular State. The dominant and majority religion is Hinduism, but principles of secularism is not practiced as Muslims and minorities enjoy more religious privileges than the majority Hindus.

7. This makes India secular in name only. It penalizes the majority of the religious citizens by denying them equal rights and privileges under law.

8. My opinion is that Hindus should have a Hindu nation where they are a majority at one billion especially because there is no other Hindu nation in the world and India is civilisationally Hindu and all Hindu shrines and holy places and sacred texts have ancient India or Bharat as its origin site.

All of this information with supporting evidence and official state dictates is available in the public domain and official state records.

I am going to ignore your second paragraph. It was an attack, unnecessary and personal.

Does me as a Hindu having an opinion about my faith offend you and strike you as extremist?

Time is relative. Non abrahamic religions have always been a minority faith since millennia.

I think it’s not right to say that I ‘despise secularism’. I am critiquing the poor state and expression of ‘secularism’ in India.

Example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_India#:~:text=....

[..]The Indian Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act of 1937 continues to be the law of land of modern India for Indian Muslims, while parliament-based, non-religious uniform civil code passed in mid-1950s applies to Indians who are Hindus (which includes Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Parsees), as well as to Indian Christians and Jews.[..]

Is this a secularism?

All I am saying is that if Muslims are allowed to practice their religious laws, Hindus should also be allowed to hold their religious law as Personal law.

The state cannot discriminate between two faiths and call itself secular.

I want Muslims (and Christians and Buddhists and everyone)to have the freedom to practice their faith. I want the same for Hindus, Saying Hindus should have the same freedom and rights is causing me to face accusations of ‘extremism’.

Strange.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Norway#:~:te....

[…]Christianity is the largest religion in Norway and Norway has historically been called a Christian country. A majority of the population are members of the Church of Norway with 64.9% of the population officially belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway in 2021.[..]

FACT: if the majority of the population OFFICIALLY follows the Christian faith, then the DOMINANT religion is Christianity.

https://www.worldpolicycenter.org/policies/how-do-countries-...

[..]Special relationship with specific religion means that the constitution explicitly states it is secular, but establishes a special relationship with one specific religion. Types of special relationships include referencing a traditional religion, acknowledging the historical influence of a specific religion, or stating that the state is founded upon values or principles from a single religious tradition

Privileges religion over nonbelief means that the constitution explicitly states it is secular, but includes provisions to support religious practice over non-belief, such as granting tax exemptions to religious organizations, allowing religion in public schools, or recognizing or partnering with religious organizations in certain areas.

God included in oath of office means that the constitution explicitly states it is secular, but has certain officials swear before God in the official oath of office included in the constitution. The constitution does not provide for a further role for religion.

References God in preamble means that the constitution explicitly states it is secular, but references or thanks God in the preamble of the constitution. The constitution does not provide for a further role for religion.

No role for religion means that the constitution explicitly states it is secular and provides no role for religion. The constitution may explicitly place limitations on the role of religion.[..]

FACT: Only 5 countries satisfy the last criteria.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_India#:~:text=....

[..]The overlap of religion and state, through Concurrent List structure, has given various religions in India, state support to religious schools and personal laws. This state intervention while resonant with the dictates of each religion, are unequal and conflicting.

For example, a 1951 Religious and Charitable Endowment Indian law allows state governments to forcibly take over, own and operate Hindu temples, and collect revenue from offerings and redistribute that revenue to any non-temple purposes including maintenance of religious institutions opposed to the temple;

Indian law also allows Islamic and other minority religious schools to receive partial financial support from state and central government of India, to offer religious indoctrination, if the school agrees that the student has an option to opt out from religious indoctrination if he or she so asks, and that the school will not discriminate any student based on religion, race or any other grounds.[..]

FACT: India is officially a secular state being the seat of Hinduism where a billion Hindus live. It is a pseudo secular state when the majority are being subjected to special rules to appease the minority.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uniform_Civil_C...

[..]The Uniform Civil Code is a proposal in India to formulate and implement personal laws of citizens which apply on all citizens equally regardless of their religion. Currently, personal laws of various communities are governed by their religious scriptures.[..]

FACT: Personal laws cover marriage, divorce, inheritance, adoption and maintenance.

[..]Personal laws were first framed during the British Raj, mainly for Hindu and Muslim citizens.

UCC emerged as a crucial topic of interest in Indian politics following the Shah Bano case in 1985. The debate arose on the question of making certain laws applicable to all citizens without abridging the fundamental right to practice religious functions. The debate then focused on the Muslim Personal Law, which is partially based on the Sharia law, permitting unilateral divorce, polygamy and putting it among the legally applying the Sharia law.

Relevant to the parent here, Indian temples are managed by the state and every other religious institution is managed by their adherents despite Hinduism being the dominant religion in an officially secular state.

This gives special privileges to minorities while being extractive and punitive towards the Hindu majority adherants.[..]

Define Supremacist.

Judaism..as it is now.. wasn’t always monotheist. And it evolved over time. And not as old as Hinduism.

Texts and inscriptions and temples from the Vedic period are much older. And that’s why there has been a systematic purge, revisionism, faulty translations and suppression of civilizational history. Hinduism..as it’s known now..is and was decentralized giving it the ability to survive and thrive millennia.

While it can be called many names and has been co opted, our source text is common to all who call themselves Hindu and that is the Vedas…our religious text.

I said dominant and official religion.

There are people who find left wing and liberal media as being disreputable.

I can see that you are determined to dismiss anything that would criticize the destruction of a non Abrahamic polytheistic faith that is older than all of the civilizations that exist today.

I don’t have the bandwidth for this. I find your posts insincere and ignorant driven only by your desire to satisfy your point of view. Therefor I see no point in continuing this discussion.

There are 79000 temples in TamilNadu alone. Most of the churches and mosques are built upon temples destroyed by the invading hordes and conversion mafias. Many of the existing temples are hundreds of years old and are heritage buildings.

The rest of the abrahamic monotheistic faiths do not have idol worship and are barely two thousand years old compared to ancient Vedic Hinduism. Their wealth is looted wealth while ancient India is millennia old.

Christies and Sothebys and the British museum is full of looted treasures.

https://drperumal.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/indigenous-method...

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03400352221103...

I have been to a few museums and libraries where the palmyra manuscripts and texts are still preserved. They should remain with people who value them instead of handing them over to the govt.

In our home library, we lost so many books where the pages were so brittle that they would break like biscuits. But the religious palm leaf scripts that have been in the family for generations were well preserved as they were wrapped in cloth. We also had some inscriptions on copper plates or some other kind of alloy metal. They were at the altar in the prayer room and kept submerged in water always. I don’t know what language it was but it was none of the known modern languages.

Even today., in the deep south, there are palm leaf astrologers whose lineage have owned Nadi astrology palm leaf manuscripts that is supposed to relate everything about you life and past lives including when you will visit the astrologer. There are some authentic lineages.

The text is written in Vatteluttu and script knowledge is passed down lineages only https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatteluttu

Nadi astrology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_astrology

The dominant and official state religion in Europe is mostly Christianity.

[..]Europe

Christianity (Eastern Orthodox)

1. Belarus 2. Bulgaria 3. Cyprus 4. Georgia 5. Greece 6. Moldova 7. Montenegro 8. North Macedonia 9. Russia 10. Serbia

Christianity (Roman Catholicism)

1. Andorra 2. Austria 3. Belgium 4. Bosnia and Herzegovina (also Islam) 5. Croatia 6. Czech Republic 7. France 8. Hungary 9. Italy 10. Latvia 11. Lithuania 12. Luxembourg 13. Malta 14. Monaco 15. Poland 16. Portugal 17. Slovakia 18. Slovenia 19. Spain 20. Switzerland

Christianity (Protestantism)

1. Denmark 2. Estonia 3. Finland 4. Germany 5. Iceland 6. Netherlands 7. Norway 8. Sweden 9. United Kingdom (Anglican)

Mixed/Other

1. Albania (Islam and Christianity) 2. Kosovo (Islam and Christianity) [..]

https://indiankanoon.org/search/?formInput=hr%20and%20ce+doc...

Or

https://hindupost.in/dharma-religion/tn-heritage-destroyed-g...

Or

https://swarajyamag.com/amp/story/news-brief/misuse-of-templ...

Or

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD1nfo-60R_Kn2R58RLIaNB...

What would satisfy you as a ‘reputable source’. I will try and find it for you. Obviously this is very important for you.

Modi’s BJP govt is central govt. This is happening in Tamil Nadu.

Why shouldn’t one billion Hindus have a Hindu nation? There is no country in the world that has Hinduism as official religion.

Religious conversions and by extension, secularism is a form of colonization.

Perhaps what you say is true. But Hinduism came from India and most of the world’s Hindus live in India.

One would expect India will declare Hinduism as their official religion as they should.

When a nation’s religious majority is unable to defend its rights, then it’s an invasion. It can be by the sword or by conversion. It’s still a displacement and replacement strategy. Indian Hindus are waking up to it. About time.

There is no country in the world where Hinduism is the official religion. Even India where 79% of the population are Hindus.

Nepal used to be the only Hindu nation in the world but that changed recently during the Maoist insurgency.

Who knows. We will have to wait and see.

India is Hindu. Hinduism was a term coined later for Sanatana Dharma that was based on Vedism, the study and worship of Vedas.

It included all forms of worship under one umbrella. It worked out well as a diverse society with one identity until monotheistic Abrahamic faiths and their adherents came as invaders and colonizers.

For most of the rest of the world, a few hundred years ago is ancient history. For India, it goes back thousands of years. And that is the identity of India. Everything else is imported and new.

1,200 Ancient Idols Stolen From Tamil Nadu Temples In 25 Years: Audit

All of these Hindu Temples are managed by the HRCE and they are responsible for its security and yet untold artifacts have been smuggled and despite repeated legal writs and petitions and legal cases against them, nothing is moving ahead.

Hindu Temples can be managed by non Hindus. Meanwhile, every other religion in India..Xianity, Islam, Sikhism.. their places are worship are run independently and the state has no control over it or its assets or resources.

Which part do you find ‘not reputable’ source of facts?

[..] The Tamil Nadu HR&CE Act

The Tamil Nadu Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) Act has been a point of contention due to various issues highlighted by critics. Lets see some significant problems associated with the Act and its implementation, with actual examples from newspapers in Tamil Nadu.

1. Control Over Temples Government Control: The Act allows the government to take control of any Hindu temple under the pretext of 'a reason to believe' there has been an irregularity, even if no actual wrongdoing is proven (Page 14, Clause 2 & 4). Example: In 2021, the Tamil Nadu government took control of the Nataraja Temple in Chidambaram citing irregularities. This action faced backlash from the Dikshithars, the traditional custodians of the temple, who claimed it was an unjustified takeover .

Non-Hindus Managing Temples: Non-Hindus, including the Chief Minister and state HR&CE officials, can manage temples despite not practicing Hinduism (Page 20, Sec 6-7a; Page 21, Sec 6-23). Example: In 2017, controversy arose when it was revealed that non-Hindu officials were involved in the management of several temples in Tamil Nadu, leading to protests by Hindu groups demanding that only practicing Hindus should hold such positions .

2. Fund Management and Financial Control Payments to HR&CE Officials: The Act mandates that salaries and pensions of HR&CE officials be the first expenditure from temple funds, questioning the secularism of such a provision (Page 23, Sec 12). Example: In 2021, it was reported that significant funds from the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were being used to pay HR&CE officials' salaries, diverting resources away from temple maintenance and services .

Asset Mismanagement: There are numerous issues with how temple assets are managed, including missing asset registers, undervaluation of leases, and questionable audit practices (Page 18, Sec 17; Page 35, Sec 29; Page 41, Sec 34-A). Example: The Hindu reported in 2020 about the undervaluation of temple properties leased at rates far below market value, particularly concerning lands belonging to the Tiruchendur Murugan Temple .

3. Vagueness and Ambiguity Undefined Terms: Key terms like 'professing Hindu religion' and 'acting in public interest' are not clearly defined, leading to potential misuse (Vagueness of Terms section). Example: An article in The Times of India highlighted the ambiguity of the term 'public interest' being used to justify the removal of trustees from the Kapaleeswarar Temple in Chennai without clear evidence of wrongdoing .

4. Temple Services and Personnel Stifling Temple Services: The Commissioner has the power to limit spending on temple services such as salaries for archakas (priests) and annadanam (free food distribution), citing financial reasons (Page 66, Sec 61). Example: In 2022, the HR&CE department's decision to cut down on annadanam services at the Palani Murugan Temple due to 'financial constraints' was heavily criticized by devotees, leading to protests .

Appointment and Dismissal of Archakas: The Act allows the appointment of archakas by the HR&CE and their dismissal by trustees for vague reasons such as 'disobedience of orders' (Page 61, Sec 55; Page 62, Sec 56). Example: The dismissal of an archaka from the Meenakshi Amman Temple in Madurai in 2018, allegedly for disobedience, sparked a debate on the arbitrary use of this provision .

5. Trustees and Governance Trustee Appointments: The criteria for becoming a trustee are minimal, leading to potential mismanagement. Trustees must merely declare faith in Hinduism without any mechanism to verify their adherence (Page 32, Sec 25-A; Page 33, Sec 26-i-1A). Example: In 2020, it was reported that several trustees appointed to the Srirangam Ranganathaswamy Temple had minimal experience in temple administration, leading to administrative inefficiencies .

Board of Trustees: The government can appoint a significant portion of the board of trustees, potentially undermining the autonomy of the temple administration (Page 52, Sec 47). Example: The appointment of politically affiliated individuals to the board of trustees of the Srirangam Temple in 2021 raised concerns about political interference in temple affairs .

6. Asset Management Issues Asset Registers: There are inconsistencies in the maintenance and publication of asset registers, leading to mismanagement and loss of temple properties (Page 35, Sec 29-D & E). Example: The Deccan Chronicle reported in 2019 that several valuable assets of the Madurai Meenakshi Temple were not properly recorded, resulting in losses and mismanagement .

Leasing Issues: The Act allows for the leasing of temple properties at undervalued rates and provides insufficient mechanisms for lease recovery (Page 42, Sec 34-B; Page 39, Sec 34). Example: In 2018, a major controversy erupted when it was discovered that prime land belonging to the Kumbakonam Temples as well as Agastheeswara Prasanna Venkatesa Perumal temple at Nungambakkam was leased at extremely low rates to private parties, leading to significant revenue losses .

Conclusion The TN HR&CE Act, while intended to regulate and manage Hindu temples and charitable institutions, has several provisions that lead to government overreach, mismanagement, and potential misuse of temple funds and assets. These issues highlight the need for a thorough review and amendment of the Act to ensure transparency, accountability, and respect for religious autonomy. The call to #FreeTNTemples reflects a growing demand for reforms to protect the interests of Hindu temples and their devotees.[..]

They have been drilling and building within temple stone walls that are hundreds of years old and installing ceilings fans and lights.

Here are just a few of the recent HR&CE crimes : https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1806747391917511165

And this: https://x.com/joshigargigoyal/status/1807105132087452000