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A comment on OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon.

Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by anotherhue on Monday June 17, 2024 @01:52AM (#40702684)
I've played this distro hopping game since I was a teenager and they were mailing free cds of this weird new south-african thing called Ubuntu which wasn't nearly as cool as the FreeBSD 5.0 release.

Enough of the astrological pseudo-science. This distro is good for hackers, use this if you want stability, use this for bleeding edge, this one is secure by default, that one has a nice UI, it's all nonsense.

The only meaningful changes have been: The effective mandatory adoption of SystemD, and the emergence of NixOS.

NixOS elevates the entire discussion. I can't wait for it to work across different UNIX kernels. It's not ready for regular people, it's not even ready for most enthusiasts, the language is awful and the nixpkgs set is full of inconsistencies, but it's all worth it.

So let's stop with the voodoo and start applying the techniques in other places. Nix without Nix is what we need.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by hiAndrewQuinn on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:12AM (#40702773)
Your humble author here... Sadly, I've heard Nix is quite a ways away from being ready for the big leagues with the BSDs.

I'm quite a fan of its approach as well, maybe a little less so when disk space is a big concern like it often is for computer appliances.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by exe34 on Monday June 17, 2024 @05:00AM (#40703670)
you wouldn't be installing and forgetting loads of different versions of everything on computer appliances. you'd develop on a normal pc and then push just what's needed to the appliance.

on the dev pc you'd run garbage collection once your new env is acceptable and the old one gets removed.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by solarpunk on Monday June 17, 2024 @01:59AM (#40702715)
>Nix without Nix is what we need.

OStree exists and is used in lots of places: https://ostreedev.github.io/ostree/#operating-systems-and-di...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by anotherhue on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:10AM (#40702764)
Agreed it's an excellent step, I confess I don't know if it answers the package building component however.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by bpye on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:00AM (#40702722)
You can use Nix to build derivations on at least some of the BSDs - so I guess if you wanted to build some BSD based appliance with Nix it is possible, but would take some doing…
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by dinozarw on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:05AM (#40702744)
> Nix without Nix

So, GNU Guix?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by anotherhue on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:30AM (#40702856)
I have only read about it but my takeaway was that it was like an opinionated sibling technology rather than a successor one.

I don't know what a successor would look like, I worry that it would have to wrangle with 40 years of software compilation techniques.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by speed_spread on Monday June 17, 2024 @06:58AM (#40704316)
I would start with Gentoo, which has recipes to build stuff from scratch for just about everything.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by anotherhue on Monday June 17, 2024 @08:41AM (#40705015)
I came from fbsd ports so agreed but that's what I'm saying, that's more thsn 20 year old tech and we should be able to improve.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by bsder on Monday June 17, 2024 @02:57AM (#40702951)
> NixOS elevates the entire discussion.

NixOS and Docker and other Linux container and isolation madness only exist because the Linux illuminati can't admit that zones and ZFS got it right.

I wish Linux would just STFU and copy them already. Given the amount of code that has been spilled, Linux could have cleanroom reimplemented zones and ZFS 10 times over by now.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by irusensei on Monday June 17, 2024 @03:13AM (#40703019)
Thats only half of the picture. These tools gain traction because of orchestration and reproducibility. Nix, NixOS and Dockerfiles allow you to define an entire structure through infrastructure code. Is there something similar on any current BSD?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by cess11 on Monday June 17, 2024 @05:26AM (#40703813)
Just use ZFS with Linux? It's been available as kernel modules for I don't know how long.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by darby_nine on Monday June 17, 2024 @08:33AM (#40704951)
I was under the impression that was the much less reliable implementation of ZFS but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by anotherhue on Monday June 17, 2024 @08:43AM (#40705032)
No it's the one true implementation now. With original flavour developers and everything.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by pjmlp on Monday June 17, 2024 @06:00AM (#40703978)
And HP-UX Vaults.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by anotherhue on Monday June 17, 2024 @08:45AM (#40705058)
No, zones / jails are about isolation. I'm talking about composability and repeatability.

The process feels more like compiling a program than decorating a house.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:OpenBSD, the computer appliance maker's secret weapon by yjftsjthsd-h on Monday June 17, 2024 @12:03PM (#40707112)
So... Linux literally has ZFS, ported wholesale from OpenSolaris, and is also homegrowing BTRFS and bcachefs as alternatives. I don't think zones could be ported as easily as ZFS, but LXC seems like a pretty close recreation, and honestly for most people I think docker was an improvement.
[ Parent | on HN ]