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Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by mh- on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @09:46PM (#40653659)
That's a very cool example of doing the "inelegant" thing and it just being objectively better. Am always on the lookout for these anecdotes, thanks!
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by Nition on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @09:49PM (#40653676)
In the same game, for character animations, instead of just using bones like others were doing - often resulting in some big distortions with low-poly characters - they set up per-vertex animation, letting the artists manually position any vertex every frame. Then wrote a custom compression algorithm in assembly to store it.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by knome on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @10:11PM (#40653791)
Not to mention actively streaming levels from the disk while you were playing them.

The whole thing is a great story.

https://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-ba...

Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by Nition on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @10:35PM (#40653912)
Yes! And the best part of that feature:

> Andy had given Kelly a rough idea of how we were getting so much detail through the system: spooling. Kelly asked Andy if he understood correctly that any move forward or backward in a level entailed loading in new data, a CD “hit.” Andy proudly stated that indeed it did. Kelly asked how many of these CD hits Andy thought a gamer that finished Crash would have. Andy did some thinking and off the top of his head said “Roughly 120,000.” Kelly became very silent for a moment and then quietly mumbled “the PlayStation CD drive is ‘rated’ for 70,000.”

> Kelly thought some more and said “let’s not mention that to anyone” and went back to get Sony on board with Crash.

Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by bongodongobob on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @01:56AM (#40654988)
I don't understand what that means. 70k per what? 120k per what? What is a "hit"? A read operation?
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by kalleboo on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @02:29AM (#40655183)
Looking at the data sheet for a contemporary Sony CD-ROM mechanism

◆ Service life of feed motor

The current consumption of feed motor must be less than initial value plus 30% after 50,000 cycles. (1cycle : innermost track → outermost track → innermost track)

◆ Service life of limit switch

The contact resistance must be less than 100mΩ after 50,000 cycles. (1cycle : innermost track → outermost track → innermost track)

◆ Pick-up slide operation

The pick-up should operate perfectly after 50,000 cycles. (1cycle : innermost track → outermost track → innermost track)

Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by Alphaeus on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @02:05AM (#40655037)
I would interpret it as completing the game requires 120,000 disk read operations, but the CD drive may fail after just 70,000 read operations.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by Nition on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @02:15AM (#40655099)
70k per lifetime of the CD drive. 120k per complete playthrough of the game. A hit is reading from the CD.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by alt0_ on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @07:38AM (#40656901)
Why did it work, though? Wouldn't the disks die halfway through the game? Did they end up cutting / optimizing the feature?
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by juliangoldsmith on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @10:33AM (#40658645)
The rating was the minimum number of reads the motors in the CD drive of the Playstation would work for. Most likely, the rating was really low compared to what the drives could actually do.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by mrguyorama on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @03:03PM (#40661712)
It might not have hah. Early version Playstation 1 consoles had notoriously bad CD drives that failed all the time. It had something to do with poor quality plastic gearing on the laser carrier or something.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by Nition on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @08:18PM (#40664602)
Would certainly be interesting to compare Crash Bandicoot playtime on failed vs. working units.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by rasz on Friday June 14, 2024 @01:18AM (#40677713)
Limit is not on "reads", but seeks - its about sled wear. Sony infamously used plastic laser sled skid in first revisions.

https://github.com/JonathanDotCel/psx_clean_laser_mirror

https://psxplanetcodes.tripod.com/repair.htm

Plastic, unlike brass, wears out quickly due to friction. Quickest test was flipping PSX upside down, worn out sled unit would start playing perfectly again in this orientation.

so Yes, there was a rather low seek (move up and down) limit on first units caused by cheap design and inferior manufacturing process.

Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by aodonnell2536 on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @11:07PM (#40665527)
An anecdote: I regularly played Crash Bandicoot with my family while young on a PlayStation, and our device always had disc drive issues. Pretty sure we even went through two PlayStations while playing that game lol. Still loved it!
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by paulryanrogers on Tuesday June 11, 2024 @11:33PM (#40654196)
Quake 1 and 2 did this as well. I wasted so much time with details that later got botched by the vertex compression. I think Quake 3 had vertex animation too, but they split the character at the hips so it could face away from the direction of travel.
Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by trilinearnz on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @01:14AM (#40654779)
The hip swivel worked well, functionally, but I always lamented how stiff the character animation looked because of it.

Was the vertex compression responsible for the wobbling/swimming effect you'd see on models, when running Q1 and Q2 in OpenGL mode?

Re:How Much of a Genius-Level Move Was Using Binary Space Pa... by paulryanrogers on Wednesday June 12, 2024 @08:24AM (#40657271)
Yes