News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by belter on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:52PM (#40567418)
Are you telling me China built the largest navy in the World (per number of ships) and now....will NOT use it?
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by jjk166 on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:49PM (#40567973)
Use it for what exactly? For decades the militaries of the world have subscribed to the theory of detterence - build up a force sufficiently large that no one in their right mind will try to attack you, and thus you don't need to fight. Under such a doctrine, the entire point of the massive spending is to not use it.

As we see in Ukraine, the decision to try and flex military strength can be quite disastrous when you demonstrate your immense military is actually a paper tiger - it generates complaints domestically, and erodes credibility abroad, to say nothing of the various other negative consequences of fighting a prolonged conflict.

China is a land power, always has been, always should be. It has no experience conducting naval operations, exceedingly few foreign bases for supporting long range naval power projection, and it is totally reliant on the maritime status quo. China likely wants to deter anyone from getting ideas about interdicting its shipping, and is probably happy to find a use for its excess steel production, but it would be crazy to pick a fight with the world's dominant naval power, which is coincidentally one of the world's premiere nuclear powers, and geographically unassailable by conventional forces, and there really isn't any naval opponent that isn't allied with one or the other. It's almost certainly intended as a fleet in being, at most an insurance policy in case America becomes isolationist in the next few years and there is a power vacuum.

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by belter on Monday June 03, 2024 @06:02PM (#40568097)
I don't understand why everybody keeps underestimating China. Their space programs started with second hand copies of Soyuz capsules, and now runs circles around the US Space program...
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by jjk166 on Monday June 03, 2024 @06:19PM (#40568273)
Their space program started with second hand copies of Soyuz, and they are still currently on copies of Soyuz.

But even if they were landing people on Mars right now, I don't see how that would be evidence they could win a nuclear war.

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by belter on Monday June 03, 2024 @07:03PM (#40568702)
> evidence they could win a nuclear war.

Well that escalated quickly! I think in that case, the artillery shell production will be last of our concerns.

I see different and more feasible scenarios: An unsatisfactory peace in Ukraine that will leave neither Russia or Ukraine happy.

Any political weakness or apathy from the US side, will be picked quickly by China as the best opportunity in 50 years...

China will progressively increase their exercises. First as like now to involve 50 airplanes and 20 ships...then 100 planes and 50 ships...then 250 planes and 100 ships, getting closer and closer to the last 20 to 25 miles of Taiwan, until the day the exercise will become an incursion, that goes for directly targeting heads of government. Probably by then hundreds of soldiers disguised as business men already will be in Taiwan.

Even if the US decides to intervene it will arrive days to weeks too late, and will make a big fuss but decide its not worth it. Specially if enough TSMC facilities are already running in the US.

You build a very strong army, either to defend or to attack. Nobody is a threat to China or want's anything from China, so they are not creating an army to defend assets...

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by jjk166 on Tuesday June 04, 2024 @11:48AM (#40575826)
It didn't escalate quickly, you just didn't read the comment you replied to.
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by Teever on Monday June 03, 2024 @08:10PM (#40569246)
I think it's denial plain and simple.

Americans have been fed a steady stream of propaganda that they're the best at everything and that no one else in the world even comes close -- especially military stuff.

Some people just cannot conceive of a world where America isn't the best, especially militarily and they cannot conceive of a world where anyone else could ever close the gap.

America spent 20 years grinding down international good will and their armed forces in waste of time conflicts that went no where while China has spent their time fastidiously consolidating economic infrastructure to wage a long term war. What does America have to show for any of it?

Now I think it's definitely likely that America could muster up the strength to fight China, but that won't happen until enough people realize that they're facing legitimate existential threat.

Acknowledging that threat means fixing fundamental flaws in our modern economy and society -- We need wake the fuck up to the rampant corruption and graft in our society and get a manufacturing economy that benefits the little guy and not some grease-bag rent-seeking parasites who contribute nothing to society.

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by rixed on Monday June 03, 2024 @11:38PM (#40570453)
> We need wake the fuck up to the rampant corruption and graft in our society and get a manufacturing economy that benefits the little guy and not some grease-bag rent-seeking parasites who contribute nothing to society.

If I were that rent seeking parasite, I would prefer you to focus your attention and rage on China instead...

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by belter on Tuesday June 04, 2024 @06:14PM (#40579500)
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by r2_pilot on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:16PM (#40567646)
Are you telling me China built the largest navy in the world (hahahaha little pooh bear with small honey-pot syndrome) and now... Will use it in violation of international law? I don't believe you're high enough ranking in the Chinese military to be privvy to any such plans. You're welcome to come back with evidence, though.
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by belter on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:32PM (#40567795)
> Will use it in violation of international law?

Checks notes: ....Uyghur camps...Hong Kong...takes whole South China Sea...

Yeap, my notes say it will.

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by r2_pilot on Monday June 03, 2024 @05:37PM (#40567848)
While within the territory of China, the United States is sadly unable to fully protect the rights of oppressed humans, I am very happy that my tax dollars go to support innocent passage through the South China Sea, making a mockery of their so-called territorial claims that are consistently refuted by the UN. Here's my proof : "On 10 May[2024] , USS Halsey (DDG 97) asserted navigational rights and freedoms in the South China Sea near the Paracel Islands, consistent with international Law." https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/37714...
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by fnalelal on Monday June 03, 2024 @06:07PM (#40568154)
I suspect China is building a big navy so they can start "asserting navigational rights and freedoms" in waters close to the US, Australia, etc.
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by r2_pilot on Monday June 03, 2024 @06:18PM (#40568269)
Hey! Guess what? They're entirely within their rights to do so! We can even escort them with our own ships out at sea, since by definition these exercises occur in international waters! And if that changes, so does the US response.
Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by Teever on Monday June 03, 2024 @08:21PM (#40569331)
It blows my mind how woefully ignorant people are about this.

Like think about it, you have an organization like the CCP that exists to exert control over 17% of the world's population and continues to deny them the basic human rights that every human being should be entitled to.

Can anyone seriously tell me that they're content to just do that to 17% of the world's population? Of course not. The fact that they haveb't extended their wretched grasp over the world isn't because they don't want to, it's that they can't do it yet.

The existance of monarchies and autocracies anywhere is a threat to the free world and the concepts of liberal democracy. Not only do we owe it to the people who live under repressive governments to free them but we owe it to ourselves to keep ourselves free.

Re:China built 10 missile cruisers in 48 months, packing 1,1... by jncfhnb on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:58PM (#40567480)
Just like their houses