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Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by tomcam on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @01:10AM (#40437540)
> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations.

Said with kindness and discretion.

Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. It has been for decades. I know firsthand that many Chinese-born parents don't even view it as at all wrong.

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by WillPostForFood on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @01:37AM (#40437665)
We are family friends with a Chinese national who did pretty well in this year's ISEF. They spent last summer back in mainland China at a private science fair camp where they prepped and prebuilt most of their project for the year. They are very bright, did a ton of real work, but had a large paid team behind them supporting and helping. They almost could have professional and amateur divisions at this point.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by vsnf on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:17AM (#40437856)
> Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities.

This has been a meme/running gag in countless sitcoms and Sunday morning newspaper comic strips for as long as I can remember. Not the Asian community part, just the 'parents actually doing the work' part. The joke is typically about overly competitive middle class suburban fathers juxtaposed against their children who have better things to do than care about dorky school projects.

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by neilv on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:29AM (#40437922)
The Cub Scout Pinewood Derby that I saw -- in which the kid is to carve a model car out of a block of wood at home, to race at an event -- they had wisely issued extra kits ahead of time, for those parents who would get a little too enthusiastic about helping Junior, and had separate races among the parents' cars.

Of course, the stakes were much smaller than an award or school admission that potentially makes/breaks your child's brilliant future career.

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by tromp on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @04:28AM (#40438672)
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by esdf on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @06:01AM (#40439204)
Also a (not south park) movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Derby
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by jszymborski on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @03:19AM (#40438205)
That's frankly an amazing way to stem the number of enthusiastic parents doing their kid's projects. I wouldn't have thought of it.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by ToucanLoucan on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @09:23AM (#40440648)
Do you need to have a child to get in on the parents segment of your cub scout's pinewood derby race? Asking for a friend.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by neilv on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @01:06PM (#40443365)
I had the same thought. :) I don't know what they're doing now. (I saw it when my mom led a Cub Scout pack, decades ago.)

If you wanted to organize some competitions in your city, the track I saw would be easy to build. You might want to design it to break down for storage in someone's garage, and to fit in the back of a couple SUVs. Maybe get city approval to host events as a block party or at a park. Or pre-arrange to donate it to a parish that hosts Scouts and has room to store it and occasionally set it up in their school gym or coffee&donuts hall.

Today, you also have more RC vehicle competitions, and (over-media-ified) generations of battling homebrew robots.

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by alfalfasprout on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:14AM (#40437844)
Yep and this is a big problem. Because while the fraud in this article was clear cut… in many other cases there can be significant misrepresentation about the student’s actual novel contributions.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by anal_reactor on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:20AM (#40437881)
Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by azherebtsov on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @03:33AM (#40438281)
Reminds me about covid time math competition. It had to be taken online. Usually maximum score can be reached by less than a dozen of students, but when competition was online there were over 3000 math geniuses

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/koronawirus-gigantyczne-rozb...

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by nsajko on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:29AM (#40437923)
Fun fact: that's actually a Yiddish word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer

English translation: dope, sucker. As in there's a sucker born every minute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by eigenket on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:50AM (#40438036)
Fun fact: according to the etymology I could find online it's actually originally a German word (meaning client of a prostitute) that was borrowed by Yiddish, then borrowed in turn by Polish from Yiddish and also ended up in a couple of other European languages.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by tokai on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @03:44AM (#40438353)
Yiddish is a German language.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by eigenket on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @04:25AM (#40438647)
Not exclusively. It has elements from Hebrew and Aramaic (of course) as well as from various Slavic languages. A big chunk of it derives from High German but not all.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by gumby on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @10:00AM (#40441107)
What tokai said was OK: English is also classified as a Germanic language even though it includes a lot of French words, not to mention Hindi etc.

For that matter, a German word like „Dolmetsch“ doesn’t make German a Turkic language.

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by eigenket on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @10:49AM (#40441700)
I think calling something a Germanic language is a bit different to calling it a German language.

I completely agree with your point about a "Germanic language" but I disagree about "a German language".

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by tokai on Friday May 24, 2024 @01:13PM (#40468263)
It developed from High German with elements of Aramaic and Hebrew, in the area we would now call west Germany. The only way it's not a German language is if you deny the historic and linguistic roots of the language.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by eigenket on Saturday May 25, 2024 @02:02AM (#40472942)
It did not develop exclusively from high German, as I wrote before and it was geographically widespread enough for clear Eastern vs Western dialects to emerge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish_dialects#Eastern_Yiddi...

Rather than existing "in the area we would now call west Germany" as you would like to believe for some reason. Eastern Yiddish in particular is much more than "a German language" (unless you want to call Polish a German language as well).

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by phreeza on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:50AM (#40438038)
Similar word also exists in standard German, where it originally meant "f*cker" but now just means a man who buys services from a prostitute.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by rurban on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @03:36AM (#40438300)
Freier is not F*cker, just someone who needs to pay for sex, and is more independent then
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by phreeza on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @03:43AM (#40438347)
No it more likely comes from archaic "freien", which still is used for "to marry" but used to mean something slightly different ;)
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by fransje26 on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @04:09AM (#40438521)
They still use a variant of that word in Dutch: vrijen. With the old meaning.. ;)
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by actionfromafar on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @09:07AM (#40440470)
The even older meaning is "courter".
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by verisimi on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:53AM (#40438054)
Also, 'chutzpah' which has a sense of being proud of trying to get away with it, unashamed.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by alex-korr on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @09:51PM (#40449471)
The word is widely used in Russian as well.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by ggambetta on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @02:55AM (#40438072)
Unfortunately very similar to Uruguay, where I grew up. One of the many reasons I haven't lived there for a while now :(
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by piva00 on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @05:30AM (#40439056)
To pile on top: also pretty similar to Brazilian culture where following the rules will be looked down as being stupid (since everyone else isn't abiding by them, you doing it is considered as self-handicapping).

One of my least favourite features of Brazil and definitely in the top 3 reasons why I left the country more than a decade ago.

Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by fransje26 on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @04:02AM (#40438467)
In Czech Republic, under communism, they used to say:

    "If you are not stealing from the state, you are stealing from your own family."
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by UncleMeat on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @08:00AM (#40439907)
Many many years ago I participated in a national history competition and went to nationals. The participants were almost entirely white, and there was absolutely this "well its obvious the parents didi this" thing there too.
Re:Scandal at America's top science fair by strikelaserclaw on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @09:22AM (#40440642)
due to growing up in cut throat dog eat dog culture, a lot of people from asia don't really teach their kids about ethics and morality even whilst living in western societies, many times they encourage the opposite.