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Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by stephc_int13 on Sunday May 19, 2024 @08:36PM (#40410906)
Yes, this is the secret sauce and the moat. Not as easy as buying more compute with unlimited budget.

… built on the back of a disposable workforce…

There is something grim and dystopian, thinking about the countless small hands feeding the machine.

Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by factormeta on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:12PM (#40411855)
>There is something grim and dystopian, thinking about the countless small hands feeding the machine.

Dystopian indeed, this is pretty much how Manhattan Project and CERN were done, with many independent contractors doing different parts, and only a few has the overview. A page out of corporate management book, it very much allows concentration of power in the hands of a few.

Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by pagekicker on Monday May 20, 2024 @03:03AM (#40413031)
Very generous to compare to Manhattan Project or CERN.
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by fragmede on Monday May 20, 2024 @05:13AM (#40413650)
don't buy into the hype, but when Facebook has spent around as much on GPUs as the Manhattan project (but not the Apollo program), the comparison kinda makes itself.

https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1786213463456448900

$22 in 2008 -> $33 today https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=22&year1=20080...

Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by ladzoppelin on Monday May 20, 2024 @05:48AM (#40413820)
I read this last week and its terrifying. If the world lets Facebook become an AI leader its on us as we all know how that story will play out.
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by thelittleone on Monday May 20, 2024 @07:39AM (#40414394)
We must summon a fellowship of the AI ring with one hobbit capable of withstanding the corrupting allure of it all.
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by kreeben on Monday May 20, 2024 @08:00AM (#40414513)
Don't torment the hobbits! Send the eagles right away!
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by nicklecompte on Monday May 20, 2024 @09:42AM (#40415378)
The Big Dig (Boston highway overhaul) cost $22bn in 2024 dollars. The Three Gorges dam cost $31bn. These are expensive infrastructure projects (including the infrastructure for data centers). It doesn't say anything about how important they are for society.

Comparing LLMs to the Manhattan Project based on budget alone is stupid and arrogant. The comparison only "makes itself" because Ethan Mollick is a childish and unscientific person.

Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by factormeta on Wednesday May 22, 2024 @07:04PM (#40447905)
>Comparing LLMs to the Manhattan Project based on budget alone is stupid and arrogant

Just want to clarify. The comparison to Manhattan Project or CERN is referencing "the countless small hands feeding the machine." In projects such as these, roles and jobs are divided into small parts, that people who are working on it don't really see the forest from the tree, and that only a few that has the picture of the whole project.

Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by wodenokoto on Monday May 20, 2024 @05:06AM (#40413616)
Since when is CERN a dystopian project?
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by nicklecompte on Monday May 20, 2024 @09:46AM (#40415426)
Big Government Socialism won't let you build your own 25km-circumference particle accelerator. Bureaucrats make you fill out "permits" and "I-9s for the construction workers instead of hiring undocumented day laborers."

I am wondering if "CERN was pushed on the masses by the few" is an oblique reference to public fears that the LHC would destroy the world.

Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by bzzzt on Monday May 20, 2024 @05:30AM (#40413732)
Maybe it's the only way. Companies that don't have that concentrated power will probably fall apart.
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by littlestymaar on Monday May 20, 2024 @08:04AM (#40414542)
The big difference is that CERN or Manhattan projects where done by local contractors with often more than decent wages, which isn't the case when you pay people from Madagascar a couple dollar a day.
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by fire_lake on Monday May 20, 2024 @01:26PM (#40417822)
Hard to defend because once your model is out there other companies can train on its output.
Re:Llama3 implemented from scratch by stephc_int13 on Monday May 20, 2024 @07:33PM (#40421947)
Yes, but the output is only one third of the data. You also need the input and the annotations.