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Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by riffraff on Sunday May 19, 2024 @02:55AM (#40404800)
The EU commission and EU parliament are somewhat removed from public backlash, it's one of the reasons people complain about the EU being "undemocratic".

So the commission or random EU MEP would be affected after 5 years or so.

Tim Cook would get backlash from stockholders the moment he announced he wanted to stop getting EU revenue rather than comply with regulations.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by yorwba on Sunday May 19, 2024 @03:59AM (#40405148)
The main thing that's isolating MEPs from backlash in this case is that "The Digital Services Act was adopted with 539 votes in favour, 54 votes against and 30 abstentions. The Digital Markets Act - with 588 in favour, 11 votes against and 31 abstentions." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IP...

This was not a vote along party lines, all big European parties voted in favor, so nobody who matters can credibly campaign on an anti-DSA/DMA platform, so the issue is unlikely to become politicized to the point where it might influence careers.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by pjerem on Sunday May 19, 2024 @03:48AM (#40405098)
While the Commission have mostly free hands to govern, European Parliament, elected by Europeans can veto their laws and can even veto the commission itself.

European Commission is nothing else than an unelected government controlled by a parliament like it happens in most countries.

Also, ultimately, the commission is nominated by elected representatives of each country so, depending on how you see the thing, we could even say that they are more democratically nominated than most governments.

The only major difference between EU and most countries is that the parliament don’t have legislative power.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by riffraff on Sunday May 19, 2024 @03:11PM (#40409073)
note I put "undemocratic" in quotes, I do not think it is actually undemocratic, but I do think it feels that way.

This is because the main difference between the EU parliament and a country parliament is that the average European has only a vague inkling of who their MEP is, what groups or parties exist in the EU parliament, and how they stand on issues.

People do not (generally) change their vote for a MEP because they did good/bad in their last term, they change their vote because they agree/disagree with the national party they represent.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by Kwpolska on Sunday May 19, 2024 @03:47AM (#40405094)
There's an EU parliament election in a few weeks or so, how is that undemocratic?
Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by pjerem on Sunday May 19, 2024 @03:53AM (#40405127)
The EU Parliament can’t make decisions, it can only veto the commission which acts as an unelected government (nominated by elected representatives of each country).

But I agree with you that this idea of an undemocratic EU is rather false and really dangerous. Everyone feels like this because nobody understands that the commission don’t represent the interests of their country but those of all the European countries which few people are capable of naming years after school.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by malermeister on Sunday May 19, 2024 @04:18AM (#40405249)
The Comission is appointed by directly elected governments, e.g. with one proxy in-between.

It is as (un-) democratic as the American Presidency, considering the Electoral College.

Yet you never hear complaints about the EC from the same types that love to rally against the Commission.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by emptysongglass on Sunday May 19, 2024 @05:02AM (#40405455)
Actually, you do, all the time. Yes, they are both undemocratic institutions and that should be changed.
Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by hulitu on Sunday May 19, 2024 @04:06AM (#40405185)
> The EU Parliament can’t make decisions,

So it has no power

> that this idea of an undemocratic EU is rather false and really dangerous

Of course it is false and dangerous. Any disturbance in lobby money, flowing to the corrupt, unelected politicians, is false and dangerous. /s

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by yau8edq12i on Sunday May 19, 2024 @04:51AM (#40405408)
The EU parliament can absolutely make decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and... This is middle school level knowledge...
Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by aembleton on Sunday May 19, 2024 @05:19AM (#40405517)
Can it initiate legislation? Any examples of legislation that were drafted by meps?
Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by yau8edq12i on Sunday May 19, 2024 @05:32AM (#40405589)
I wasn't aware that "make decisions" meant exclusively "initiate legislation". You don't have to play coy, though: it is also middle school level knowledge that the parliament cannot formally initiate the legislative process. It's also written in the Wikipedia article I linked.

> The European Parliament has legislative power in that the adoption of EU legislation normally requires its approval, and that of the Council, in what amounts to a bicameral legislature. However, it does not formally possess the right of initiative (i.e. the right to formally initiate the legislative procedure) in the way that most national parliaments of the member states do, as the right of initiative is a prerogative of the European Commission.[7][8] Nonetheless, the Parliament and the Council each have the right to request the Commission to initiate the legislative procedure and put forward a proposal.[9]

What is your conclusion from this? What point do you want to make? Don't leave your readers guessing.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by mike_hearn on Sunday May 19, 2024 @06:08AM (#40405765)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament

In modern politics, and history, a parliament is a legislative body of government.

The purpose of a parliament is to make decisions about what the law says. Something that cannot decide what the law is, is therefore not a parliament. The EU Parliament isn't really a parliament.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by pjerem on Sunday May 19, 2024 @06:29AM (#40405859)
The thing is, European Union isn’t a country. It’s an union of countries. The Union itself doesn’t have legislative powers. The Union dictates rules the countries must follow the laws are still written by national parliaments.

To be clear, I’m absolutely not against the European Parliament having legislative powers but that would require the UE to become a federation and we are still far from this.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by jimbobthrowawy on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:49AM (#40407688)
> The Union dictates rules the countries must follow the laws are still written by national parliaments.

You're thinking of EU Directives, which have to be transposed into national law by some deadline. EU Regulations (e.g. GDPR) are considered legally enforceable all on their own, though still have a delay.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by yau8edq12i on Sunday May 19, 2024 @09:46AM (#40406932)
At first it was "making decisions", then it was "initiate legislation", and now it's "decide what the law is". It's tiring to argue against moving goal posts and bad faith. Besides, the first sentence of a Wikipedia article is not the ultimate, complete and exhaustive definition of what something is.

> Something that cannot decide what the law is

Good thing the EU parliament decides what the law is, then.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by mike_hearn on Monday May 20, 2024 @10:27AM (#40415829)
That's not a moving goal post. In the context of a parliament all three phrases mean (are supposed to mean) the same thing. "Initiating legislation" for example, is just another way to say "decide what the law is". The EU Parliament cannot make that decision, that's the point that keeps getting repeated. It can only acquiesce to or slow down the Commission's decisions.
Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by yau8edq12i on Monday May 20, 2024 @03:13PM (#40419046)
> "Initiating legislation" for example, is just another way to say "decide what the law is".

It's not.

> It can only acquiesce to or slow down the Commission's decisions.

That's not all it can do.

Re:Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" by riffraff on Sunday May 19, 2024 @03:03PM (#40409015)
it's not, that's why I put it in quotes, but it is removed from people's everyday lives which is why some people feel it like that.

I know the names of the leaders of all parliamentary groups in my country, and how the groups stand on all positions. I have no idea who such leaders are in the EU parliament, or how they stand in e.g. the upcoming changes to GMO regulations.