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Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by derefr on Thursday May 16, 2024 @01:53PM (#40381230)
This isn't even about "happy users", though; it's about money.

Where does Google's ad revenue come from if users give up on waiting for their searches to complete before they're ever shown any revenue-generating sponsored links?

Actually, thinking about this more, I fundamentally don't understand Google's search experience strategy over the last 10 years. Even before AI answers, they were heuristic-ing answers into a little box that pushed sponsored ad placements below the fold. Why push sponsored results below the fold? How does Google make money from a search engine that just answers people's questions directly, rather than doing lead-gen for the rest of the Internet (with much of the Internet willing to pay for that)?

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:03PM (#40381349)
> Where does Google's ad revenue come from if users give up on waiting for their searches

You serve the ads while the answers spin up.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by mrweasel on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:19PM (#40382051)
That would be kinda sad, given that Google would previously forgo showing ads, if they didn't arrive on time.

This is actually a problem I currently have with Ecosia on mobile. I search, get the result, and then the ads pop in, pushing the search results down, causing me to click the ad and not the result that previously occupied that part of the screen.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by voiceblue on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:27PM (#40381581)
I don’t think that comment was in regards to AI, I think it was about the blurb that appears instantaneously from Google’s knowledge engine (e.g. when searching a celebrity’s age).
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by zitterbewegung on Thursday May 16, 2024 @01:56PM (#40381269)
I think they just want to have your captured on their platform . If you get all of your answers then why pick a competitor?
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by theolivenbaum on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:03PM (#40381893)
They probably also know that some types of queries are not ad-worth (like age of an actor, etc), while others would never show a box
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by derefr on Thursday May 16, 2024 @04:55PM (#40383016)
That's a really good point. Google has likely decided that some query categories are unprofitable-enough already that they can just drop the rest of the expected revenue from them, and instead use them as loss-leaders — aiming to give the customer a better (but zero-revenue) experience today, to increase retention, so they'll come back with positive-revenue-generating queries later.

They've just done a rather braindead job of it, with the experience of these loss-leader queries feeling perceptually† worse than a regular SERP page would.

It's like a grocery store running a sale on e.g. milk, selling it for below-cost — but then making you have to wait in a line for five minutes in front of the milk cooler to get it. It feels like so much friction that not only wouldn't lure people in; it would push people to avoid that grocer when its milk sales are happening, and shop at other stores instead!

---

† I emphasize perceptually here. Even if the total time spent waiting for an AI answer is shorter than the time it would take to load a SERP page, read and select a link that looks like it'll have your answer, click it, load the resulting page, and read it — the AI experience could still feel longer, in large part because "the ball is in your court" for a lot of the self-navigated query, with you being given things to look at and click on; while "the ball is in their court" for the entirety of the AI response, with just a spinner and no indication of what's happening.

As such, I wonder if this could be solved by just running a cute little animation under the AI prompt window: make it look like it's automating the loading of a [blurred to non-identifiability] SERP page, scrolling down, clicking a result, loading an [again blurred] page, highlighting a few random fragments of it, and then transposing them together to form the paragraphs of the answer — before the answer actually snaps into place on top of that animation. If you can predict how long before the AI answers, you can even use that to determine how long the animation should spend dicking around on the pretend SERP page and answer page.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by bilekas on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:17PM (#40381475)
> How does Google make money from a search engine that just answers people's questions directly

It did what it needed to do to realise the same thing and get their fingers in all the other pies.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by otabdeveloper4 on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:03PM (#40381350)
Google works because it is a monopoly.

All human eyeball traffic goes through Google.

It is in their interest to keep destroying the open information marketplace because then advertisers are forced to buy through Google. (Much easier and more profitable than trying to make a good adtech product.)

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by panarky on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:54PM (#40381828)
Competition is just one click away.

As others in this thread already point out, it's extremely easy to use DDG or Bing if you want.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by doublerabbit on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:00PM (#40381867)
> Competition is just one click away.

As an illusion sure, in practice not really.

I use Kagi, I bought the family plan so I could try convining my family to use it, did they? No.

Did my family want to use Signal for messaging? No.

Do my friends want to use something else than Discord for communicating with me? No.

Competition exists and in plenty but folk are too mind sucked to want to move platform. If its not broke, why change?

People don't want to change. And until such platforms close their gates or whereby something new comes along that isn't a clone; there will be no shift.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by skydhash on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:51PM (#40382408)
Lead by example, not by preaching. And taking a stance.

You won’t find me on any social media other than Linkedin and Twitter. And on those, I no longer post or interact with people. I keep Twitter because of announcements and Linkedin as a public CV. I also use WhatsApp because alternatives are not really viable (but I reduced its social aspect as much as possible). You’re free to make your choices. Just don’t complain about it, if you won’t heed my advices.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by doublerabbit on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:56PM (#40382449)
Your still part of the problem regardless if you use the services or not: the fact these corporations are so ingrained with the weedy roots, you can't.

Google is testing on those as we test on animals. ML for only search? Naw.

If everyone turned off their droid, stopped using their email, switched to Firefox, they would still be on top.

Yes. It's better not to, if your going to preach, yeah. As I use no services other than Signal we are just pawns in this game. We are a just pittance of income who are keeping the empire's on top. And who do you run too? DDG is owned by Apple so your only fuelling their empire.

This goes deeper than you could imagine.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by thegrimmest on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:37PM (#40382264)
Doesn't this just mean that the vast majority of users don't care enough about these sorts of things? Doesn't that mean that the market is working?

If switching cost > perceived benefit why should we expect anything other than status quo? When a truly innovative platform that offers benefit > switching cost, users will naturally flock to it. We're already starting to see that with ChatGPT.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by MereInterest on Thursday May 16, 2024 @07:13PM (#40384461)
> Doesn't this just mean that the vast majority of users don't care enough about these sorts of things? Doesn't that mean that the market is working?

No. Network effects mean that there's not only a high cost of switching away from the largest network, but there's a high cost to use anything other than the largest network. When that bias exists, you cannot infer any preferences from market outcomes.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by thegrimmest on Friday May 17, 2024 @09:48AM (#40389824)
OK so innovators have to provide an option where:

benefit > switching cost + network cost

This has repeatedly been demonstrated as large networks have been disrupted. Folks switched away from MSN Messenger and MySpace didn't they?

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by otabdeveloper4 on Friday May 17, 2024 @02:47AM (#40387135)
No. Google owns your phone and your browser, your email, your video feed and often your office productivity tools too.

All human eyeballs go through Google's advertising network first. (Unless you're an Apple-only person.)

So for advertisers it makes no sense to budget anything but Google first and foremost. Maybe they'll add some Bing-Yahoo if they have spare money laying around and want to catch the remaining couple percent of the audience.

P.S. Search is only a small part of Google's advertising network, and not the most important one nowadays.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by holonsphere on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:21PM (#40381514)
Everything they do is about projecting power and silencing(i.e. drowning out) the "opposition"

https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/blog/genocide-in-the...

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by genman on Thursday May 16, 2024 @02:30PM (#40381615)
Keep your Nazi bullshit for yourself please.
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by forgetfreeman on Thursday May 16, 2024 @03:29PM (#40382162)
Admittedly I didn't read the whole page but a quick skim of the first several paragraphs didn't produce anything with obvious ties to national socialism, what am I missing?
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by wahnfrieden on Thursday May 16, 2024 @04:12PM (#40382596)
genman is saying that critical evaluation of Israel’s automated targeting AI system (used for selecting bombing targets without human verification) is equivalent to supporting Hitler.

Their logic is that Palestinians represent a credible existential threat to Jewish people internationally in the same way that Hitler’s military did, so that criticism of IDF bombing campaigns is equivalent to Naziism, and Palestinian resistance is identified as genocide against Israel.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by genman on Thursday May 16, 2024 @04:15PM (#40382621)
It is calling Israel "the so-called Jewish state" and 'Israel' what effectively means a claim that Jewish people do not have right for the state on their ancestors land and genocide against them (like genocide on 7th October, or earlier intifadas) is somehow justified.
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by CatWChainsaw on Thursday May 16, 2024 @06:49PM (#40384270)
The Palestinians currently living there had their own ancestors that also lived there. Do they not count?
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by genman on Thursday May 16, 2024 @07:57PM (#40384826)
Russia is right now trying its best to forcefully assimilate all the small nations it keeps occupying, because it is afraid that in one they have to give all of it back.
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by CatWChainsaw on Thursday May 16, 2024 @08:09PM (#40384912)
Since that has nothing to do with what came previously, I'll be 100% uncharitable and assume that's a big old No and you support IDF bombing hospitals and schools and aid convoys unless you explicitly indicate otherwise. Glad we had this little chat.
[dead]
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by wahnfrieden on Thursday May 16, 2024 @08:25PM (#40385029)
Complete distortions and lies
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by genman on Thursday May 16, 2024 @09:07PM (#40385281)
The history disagrees with this assessment.
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by animuchan on Friday May 17, 2024 @07:41AM (#40388810)
So your justification for their terrorism is, they're locals?
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by CatWChainsaw on Friday May 17, 2024 @05:47PM (#40394491)
I didn't realize the entire population was terrorists because a fraction of them committed terrorism and the rest lived in close proximity, so I trust you'll be totally fine with Vietnam nuking the States for everything we, you and me obviously, put them through.

And since you asked that question in bad faith now it's my turn. Is bombing hospitals, schools, and aid convoys terrorism, or is it terrorism unless it's the IDF doing it to Palestinians, specifically?

Where's Daddy, animuchan?

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by wahnfrieden on Friday May 17, 2024 @08:41PM (#40395574)
When supporters buy and repeat every Zaka lie that BBC, NYT etc launder even past being discredited even by Israeli papers like Haaretz, there’s not much hope in the back and forth
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by animuchan on Saturday May 18, 2024 @09:09AM (#40398729)
The overwhelming majority of the population you're defending supports the killing of Israeli civilians. This is according to their own polls.

The IDF, given the limited resources, comically unreliable allies, and the hostage situation, is doing a great job. You labeled your own argument to the contrary as being in bad faith because we both know that. :)

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by CatWChainsaw on Saturday May 18, 2024 @12:26PM (#40400163)
Your question was in bad faith so I responded in kind. Your argument is that it doesn't matter how many noncombatant Palestinians (or aid workers of the UN/etc) get killed because there is no other option and they hate the people killing them so they deserve it anyway, and my argument is, that's bullshit.
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by racional on Saturday May 18, 2024 @01:01PM (#40400350)
The overwhelming majority of the population you're defending supports the killing of Israeli civilians. This is according to their own polls.

False.

The PCPSR polls (the only ones anyone is talking about) do show broad support for the statement that the Oct 7th attack was "correct". But overwhelmingly (91%) they do not believe that atrocities against civilians occurred during the attacks. 81 percent also said they did not watch videos published by international organizations showing atrocities, for a variety of reasons.

Which is still troubling, of course. But the reality of what these people actually said is entirely different from what you're describing.

Unfortunately some news outlets (such as the Times of Israel, AP) chose to present misleading characterizations of second poll in particular, which of course then got pasted all over social media.

The IDF is doing a great job.

Meanwhile there's plenty of denial going around as to atrocities committed by the IDF as well, of course. But this is a different topic.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by genman on Saturday May 18, 2024 @04:50PM (#40401996)
It is also highly likely that these people answering the polls are simply lying and know very well what actually happened. I watched a lot of raw footage around the time of Al-Aqsa Mosque storming and what I saw considerably differed from what Palestinians claimed had happened. Al-Aqsa mosque really was used as a base for violent attacks - there were piles of stones stored in the mosque. What especially shocked and disturbed me were people just hanging around in shoes like in a nightclub, showing no respect to the holy place.
Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by racional on Sunday May 19, 2024 @02:51AM (#40404787)
Wow - that was quite a topic change.

So it seems your response is: on the basis of what you saw in some videos regarding an event in the Old City a little ways back -- most Palestinians are pathological liars, and that's all there is to it.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by genman on Sunday May 19, 2024 @10:47AM (#40407317)
So you discount the possibility of widespread ideological indoctrination to claim that everything that is negative does not exist and is let's say - a Jewish propaganda? What about Russia? Still not possible to have completely different reality where everything negative is the fault of somebody else but themselves?

I saw the videos taken inside Al-Aqsa mosque, not just "some videos" and that considerably differed from what Palestinians claimed. And no, this is not an isolated event, just an example of very consistent pattern of lying.

Now about the 7ht October. Hamas paraded the captured civilians through Gaza and was welcomed by thousands of spectators. Honestly, the claim that 91% of the people are not at all aware of any atrocities against civilians can only mean two possibilities - they are lying or they do not consider it atrocities.

Re:I don't want to spend my one precious life dealing with G... by forgetfreeman on Friday May 17, 2024 @12:16AM (#40386333)
That's kind of what I was afraid of.