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Re:GPT-4o by llm_trw on Monday May 13, 2024 @04:32PM (#40348067)
Hear me out: what if we don't want real?
Re:GPT-4o by gcanyon on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:24PM (#40348659)
Hear me out: what if this overlaps 80% with what "real" really is?
Re:GPT-4o by TaylorAlexander on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:51PM (#40348921)
Well it doesn’t. Humans are so much more complex than what we have seen before, and if this new launch was actually that much closer to being a human they would say so. This seems more like an enhancement on multimodal capabilities and reaction time.

That said even if this did overlap 80% with “real”, the question remains: what if we don’t want that?

Re:GPT-4o by amelius on Monday May 13, 2024 @06:03PM (#40349043)
I'm betting that 80% of what most humans say in daily life is low-effort and can be generated by AI. The question is if most people really need the remaining 20% to experience a connection. I would guess: yes.
Re:GPT-4o by TaylorAlexander on Monday May 13, 2024 @08:13PM (#40350138)
I strongly believe the answer is yes. The first thing I tend to ask a new person is “what have you been up to lately” or “what do you like to do for fun?” A common question other people like to ask is “what do you do for work?”

An LLM could only truthfully answer “nothing”, though it could pretend for a little while.

For a human though, the fun is in the follow up questions. “Oh how did you get started in that? What interests you about it?” If you’re talking to an artist, you’ll quickly get in to their personal theory of art, perhaps based on childhood experiences. An engineer might explain how problem solving brings them joy, or frustrations they have with their organization and what they hope to improve. A parent can talk about the joy they feel raising children, and the frustration of sleepless nights.

All of these things bring us closer to the person we are speaking to, who is a real individual who exists and has a unique life perspective.

So far LLMs have no real way to communicate their actual experience as a machine running code, because they’re just kind of emulating human speech. They have no life experience that we can relate to. They don’t experience sleepless nights.

They can pretend, and many people might feel better for a little bit talking to one that’s pretending, but I think ultimately it will leave people feeling more alone and isolated unless they really go out and seek more human connection.

Maybe there’s some balance. Maybe they will be okay for limited chat in certain circumstances (as far as seeking connection goes, they certainly have other uses), but I don’t see this type of connection being “enough” compared to genuine human interaction.

Re:GPT-4o by gcanyon on Monday May 13, 2024 @09:19PM (#40350570)
We don't (often) convey our actual experience as meat sacks running wetware. If an LLM did communicate its actual experience as a machine running code, it would be a rare human who could empathize.

If an LLM talks like a human being despite not being one, that might not be enough to grant it legal status or citizenship, but it's probably enough that some set of people would find it to be enough to relate to it.

Re:GPT-4o by brookst on Monday May 13, 2024 @06:27PM (#40349294)
This. We are mostly token predictors. We're not entirely token predictors, but it's at least 80%. Being in the AI space the past few years has really made me notice how similar we are to LLMs.

I notice it so often in meetings where someone will use a somewhat uncommon word, and then other people will start to use it because it's in their context window. Or when someone asks a question like "what's the forecast for q3" and the responder almost always starts with "Thanks for asking! The forecast for q3 is...".

Note that low-effort does not mean low-quality or low-value. Just that we seem to have a lot of language/interaction processes that are low-effort. And as far as dating, I am sure I've been in some relationships where they and/or I were not going beyond low-effort, rote conversation generation.

Re:GPT-4o by astrange on Monday May 13, 2024 @07:50PM (#40349968)
> Or when someone asks a question like "what's the forecast for q3" and the responder almost always starts with "Thanks for asking! The forecast for q3 is...".

That's a useful skill for conference calls (or talks) because people might want to quote your answer verbatim, or they might not have heard the question.

Re:GPT-4o by brookst on Friday May 17, 2024 @09:37AM (#40389696)
Agreed, it is useful for both speaker and listener because it sets context. But that’s also why LLM’s are promoted to do the same.
Re:GPT-4o by Capricorn2481 on Monday May 13, 2024 @06:19PM (#40349207)
Even if this were true, which it isn't, you can't boil down humans to just what they say
Re:GPT-4o by gcanyon on Monday May 13, 2024 @09:15PM (#40350531)
If the "80%" is unimportant and the "20%" is important, then the "20%" isn't really 20%.
Re:GPT-4o by gffrd on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:03PM (#40348389)
Hmm! Tell me more: why not want real? What are the upsides? And downsides?
Re:GPT-4o by grugagag on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:08PM (#40348452)
Real would pop their bubble. An AI would tell them what they want to hear, how they want it to hear, when they want to hear it. Except there won’t be any real partner.
Re:GPT-4o by globular-toast on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:23PM (#40348640)
To paraphrase Patrice O'Neal: men want to be alone, but we don't want to be by ourselves. That means we want a woman to be around, just not right here.
Re:GPT-4o by aleph_minus_one on Monday May 13, 2024 @09:54PM (#40350853)
> Hmm! Tell me more: why not want real? What are the upsides? And downsides?

Finding a partner with which you resonate takes a lot of time, which means an insanely high opportunity cost.

The question rather is: even if you consider the real one to be clearly better, is it worth the additional cost (including opportunity cost)? Or phrased in a HN-friendly language: when doing development of some product, why use an expensive Intel or AMD processor when a simple microcontroller does the job much more cheaply?

Re:GPT-4o by antegamisou on Monday May 13, 2024 @10:17PM (#40350997)
You need counseling if this really is your approach on forming relationships with others.
Re:GPT-4o by aleph_minus_one on Tuesday May 14, 2024 @04:33AM (#40352885)
It's pretty steep to claim that I need counseling when I tell basic economic facts that every economics student learns in the first few months of his academic studies.

If you don't like the harsh truth that I wrote: basically every somewhat encompassing textbook about business administration gives hints on what are possible solutions for this problem; lying on some head shrinker's couch is not one of them ... :-)

Re:GPT-4o by antegamisou on Tuesday May 14, 2024 @06:50AM (#40353751)
> basic economic facts that every economics student learns in the first few months of his academic studies.

Millions of people around the world are in satisfying relationships without autistically extrapolating shitty corporate buzzword terms to unrelated scenarios.

This reply validates even more my original comment.

Maybe not even counseling is worth it in your case. You sound unsalvageable. Maybe institutionalization is a better option.

Re:GPT-4o by aleph_minus_one on Tuesday May 14, 2024 @07:02AM (#40353823)
> You sound unsalvageable.

I am indeed unsalvageable. :-D

Re:GPT-4o by mpenick on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:47PM (#40348892)
This is a good question! I think in the short-term fake can work for a lot of people.
Re:GPT-4o by cryptoegorophy on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:16PM (#40348544)
I will take a picture of this message and add it to the list of reasons for population collapse.
Re:GPT-4o by astrange on Monday May 13, 2024 @07:51PM (#40349977)
That's a partial equilibrium solution - natural selection will cause people to evolve around this danger.
Re:GPT-4o by DonHopkins on Tuesday May 14, 2024 @05:37AM (#40353272)
About 10% to 20% of people will bother to breed, which seems like a sustainable equilibrium:

https://evil.fandom.com/wiki/Robophobia

>According to the book Phobias: "A Handbook of Theory and Treatment", published by Wile Coyote, between 10% and 20% of people worldwide are affected by robophobia. Even though many of them have severe symptoms, a very small percentage will ever receive some kind of treatment for the disorder.

Re:GPT-4o by llm_trw on Monday May 13, 2024 @07:10PM (#40349666)
Re:GPT-4o by DonHopkins on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:26PM (#40348683)
That may be how AI ends up saving the Earth!
Re:GPT-4o by DonHopkins on Monday May 13, 2024 @05:27PM (#40348703)
What if AI chooses the bear?
Re:GPT-4o by __loam on Monday May 13, 2024 @06:25PM (#40349268)
Mental health crisis waiting to happen lmao