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Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by brap on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:39AM (#40143653)
>I think one should attribute a good amount of credit of this to Yann LeCun (head of meta's research). From early stage he have been vocal about keeping things open-source, and voiced that to Mark before even joining. (and credit to Mark for keeping that).

That's all very nice and good, but Meta keeps things open (for now) because it's perfectly aligned with their business goals. It couldn't have happened any other way.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by sqren on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:13AM (#40143984)
You make it sound like it's a bad thing that it aligns with their business goals. I'd turn this around: if it didn't align with their business goals I would be worried that they would course correct very soon.
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by pydry on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:20AM (#40144059)
No, just that they shouldn't be showered with praise for doing what is in their best interests - commoditizing their complement.

For the same reason Microsoft doesn't deserve credit for going all in on linux/open source when they did. They were doing it to stave off irrelevance that came from being out-competed by open source.

They were not doing it because they had a sudden "come to jesus" moment about how great open source was.

In both cases, it was a business decision being marketed as an ideological decision.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by yayr on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @12:33PM (#40146483)
I am sure that they would have found a way to also align a closed approach with their business goals if they wanted to.

However, they chose not to. And I assume the the history of e.g. android, pytorch and other open source technologies had a lot to do with it.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by JadeNB on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:40AM (#40144279)
The suggestion was to credit LeCun, not Meta. (Perhaps you were responding to the secondary suggestion also to credit Zuckerberg?)
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by theultdev on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:32AM (#40144187)
I believe in praise for any company that finds a way to profit and do the right thing.

If they don't profit, then they don't have resources to do those things in addition to not being able to provide a livelihood for their workers.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by nozzlegear on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @03:16PM (#40148362)
I really don’t understand this weird, almost zealous resistance to admitting that a company can do a good thing once in a while. You’d think Meta had kidnapped people’s families and held them at gunpoint or something.
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by CactusOnFire on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @04:12PM (#40148987)
No, just agitated a genocide campaign against minorities in Myanmar:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-faceb...

Morality aside, I do like the open source work coming out of Meta. It's possible for a company to be "bad guys" in one area, and "good guys" in another.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by theultdev on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @04:45PM (#40149386)
That article is extremely biased.

Basically it's accusing Meta of should have knowing that their algorithm and their user generated stickers was spreading this content.

Yes in an ideal world they should catch any campaign of this sort, but global moderation is difficult and they offer no proof that Meta knew about this.

It's disingenuous to say that Meta agitated this event. Those specific users of Meta agitated it and Meta did not catch it.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by atwrk on Thursday April 25, 2024 @09:05AM (#40157031)
> Yes in an ideal world they should catch any campaign of this sort, but global moderation is difficult

It really isn't, it just is expensive to do it. They could just hire people to do that. Thats the accusation. Of course they don't catch it if they don't try.

Meta (or TikTok or Twitter or any other social media company/product) can't both algorithmically create specific types of discourse (because higher engagement means more ad views) and deny responsiblity for the side effects of said discourse.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by nozzlegear on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:23PM (#40149869)
Preposterous, it’s not like Zuck got on the horn with his algorithm devs and was like “let’s get rid of some people in Myanmar in a really roundabout way.” Do you hold the guy behind Curl to the same standard every time his software gets used in a way he didn’t intend?
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by pydry on Thursday April 25, 2024 @10:48AM (#40158243)
It's not. It's resistance to the idea that their demands to be lavished with praise should be acceded to because their single minded focus on profit aligned with a good thing once or twice.

They're supposed to do good things all the time without praise. That's why society grants them the right to profit.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by nozzlegear on Thursday April 25, 2024 @07:30PM (#40164318)
Where is Meta demanding to be lavished with praise? As far as I can tell, nobody from Meta is demanding or asking that. The only thing that’s happening is people in the comments here on HN saying “wow this is neat, and it’s cool that it’s open source”, and then getting UM ACKCHYUALLY’d by reply guys telling them that Facebook is actually full of corporate genociders who occasionally write open source to fool us all.
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by michaelt on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:31AM (#40144181)
> Meta keeps things open (for now) because it's perfectly aligned with their business goals.

How?

I would have said a flood of LLM-generated spam is a pretty big threat to Facebook's business. Facebook don't seem to have any shortage of low/medium quality content; it's not like they need open-weights LLMs to increase the supply of listicles and quizzes, which are already plentiful. There isn't much of a metaverse angle either. And they risk regulatory scrutiny, because everyone else is lobotomising their models.

And if they wanted a flood of genai content - wouldn't they also want to release an image generation model, to ensure instagram gets the same 'benefits' ?

Sure there are some benefits to the open weights LLM approach that make them better at LLMs - I'm sure it makes it easier for them to hire people with LLM experience for example - but that's only helpful to the extent that Facebook needs LLMs. And maybe they'll manage to divert some of that talent to ad targeting or moderation - but that hardly seems 'perfectly aligned', more of a possible indirect benefit.

Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by lmeyerov on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:39AM (#40144271)
In a recent interview, Mark Zuckerberg said they're spending $10B-$100B on training and inferencing over the next X years. They see open source as a way to get the community to cut that cost. In his view, even just 10% cheaper inferencing pays for a lot.
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by jayd16 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:50AM (#40144421)
Does open source just not count if you have an alternative business model? Even big open source projects hold on to enterprise features for funding. What company would meet your criteria of proper open source contributer?
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by kaliqt on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:10AM (#40143956)
That's a good thing.
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by blueboo on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @08:51AM (#40143764)
Also is perfectly aligned with Yann’s goals as an (academic) researcher whose career is built on academic community kudos far more than, say, building a successful business
Re:Meta does everything OpenAI should be by ethbr1 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:08AM (#40143928)
I'd definitely rather build a product on an assumption that a company/individual will continue to act in its own best interest than on its largess.