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Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by bitwize on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:02AM (#39977118)
A moderator on Vaxry's discord changed a transgender person's pronouns from "they/them" to "who/cares". Vaxry did nothing about it, and even supported this change, stating that the person was making too big a deal about their pronouns:

https://drewdevault.com/2023/09/17/Hyprland-toxicity.html

It may therefore be concluded that Vaxry condones transphobia and transphobic behavior, and therefore he doesn't have a place on FDO or any mainstream open source project.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by PlutoIsAPlanet on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:07AM (#39977146)
That's immature and unthoughtful behaviour, but I fail to see "hate" or continued spreading of "hate", why a Wayland compositor uses Discord as a community forum given Discord is the gutter when it comes to online converse , who knows.

Keyword in your message is "may".

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by bitwize on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @06:26AM (#39977969)
Discord is much, much more convenient than the historic alternatives like IRC or email. If you want a project to grow you have to meet prospective developers where they are; and in the 2020s that's X (Twitter), Mastodon, and Discord. Discord communities can be moderated to be safe and friendly... but Vaxry couldn't be arsed to do so because he's "based".

As to whether Vaxry was "really" promulgating hate... Refusing to acknowledge and respect a person's gender identity is transphobic.

Condoning this behavior (and victim-blaming the person who called it out) is transphobic.

When trans people and trans allies have positions of authority in an open-source community, public transphobes will get issued preemptive bans for the health of the community and the project. It is altogether fitting and proper that this be done.

Oh, and the fact that Vaxry slagged off Lyude publicly in his blog for good-faith enforcement of the code of conduct (as she has the authority and duty to do) just means that FreeDesktop would ban him again harder if they could.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by PlutoIsAPlanet on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:04AM (#39978157)
> Oh, and the fact that Vaxry slagged off Lyude publicly in his blog for good-faith enforcement of the code of conduct

From what I see they both slagged each other.

Again though, I'm asking for where's the spreading of hate.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by bitwize on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @08:08AM (#39978554)
In case the cited example is not enough to count as "hate" for you (in which case, the code of conduct teams of major open source projects should take a good look at your behavior and determine whether to permit you to contribute to such projects), Lyude calls out a few specific instances in her opening email:

    I'd like to take a moment to specifically point out some examples that were brought to our attention of this behavior:
    * Hazing someone in your discord because they have pronouns in their bio
    * Speaking pretty bluntly against queer people and minorities at large
     - "at 15 he doesnt even know what he will be studying at uni and he already wanna go get AIDS?"
     - "I think this server's motto should be 'love guns, hate damn minorities'"
Source: https://blog.vaxry.net/resource/articleFDO/LyudeMails.pdf

But ultimately, I do not see your name on the FreeDesktop.org code of conduct committee... therefore, your opinion of what constitutes hate is completely irrelevant in this case. Code of Conduct committees are authorized to issue bans against anyone who, in their sole discretion, is an asshole specifically to avoid this kind of fruitless argument. The emphasis is on fostering a safe and welcoming community. Not in allowing freeze peach activists to sealion their way out of a ban.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by neonsunset on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @09:40AM (#39979336)
This email is a very good demonstration on why you don't negotiate with terrorists or politburo representatives. They have gotten where they are exactly because they enjoy abusing the power given to them. Pleading your case before them is to just give them amusement.

They will spit on the work you carefully worked on throughout the years and celebrate that.

Thus, you don't negotiate. Instead, you go to their higher-ups and highlight that the company's resources are being misappropriated for petty squabbles and personal tilting at windmills.

Though sadly nowadays it has gotten way more difficult, because a greater portion of bureaucratic, community and HR positions in the companies are captured, so when the damage is noticed, it may already be too late.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by pests on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @03:13PM (#39983074)
Is this satire? Are we really at the level of policing thoughts?
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by throwaway_62022 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:21PM (#39983804)
So, whatever is posted publicly on "polite" forums about what was going on Hyprland discord is tip of the iceberg. See for yourself - https://imgur.com/a/6Po3Paq

Hyprland discord appears to be a cesspool and one fermented by Vaxry himself, trans hate or otherwise. Now some people are saying - they have improved (and others are saying they have not). But reading his blog posts and seeing current status, I am not optimistic. I mean you can't make this stuff up. Why use a opensource discord community for sharing porn? (which likely have minors).

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:25PM (#39983854)
So? Is xe a discord moderator? Are you?

Stay out of other people's business. What they say and do in their discord server has nothing to do with code contributions an owner of the server makes.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by bitwize on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @03:38PM (#39983336)
No. We are at the level of holding people accountable for their BEHAVIOR. Something that historically hasn't been done, resulting in a chilling effect on contributions from decent people, especially those from marginalized groups. That's changing.

You can fulminate about trans people all you like in the quiet of your own home, but if you harass or intimidate them in a publicly viewable way, there will be consequences. And when a code of conduct board member for a project approaches you and tells you you need to do better, any response other than "Yes, sir/ma'am/other, I will do better" is grounds for questioning whether you should be permitted to contribute further to the project.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:24PM (#39983841)
You say this, but I don't think you're right.

Will the invasion of FOSS continue?

Never opposed by sane normal people?

Be ready for the masses to say "no" when you order them around.

A time when mentally ill men aren't given rule over all FOSS projects is coming.

Woman fights back!

Now read the first word of each line above :)

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by jdiff on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @09:10PM (#39985972)
Normal people aren't raging transphobes and won't tolerate your presence as you make others feel unwelcome. You'll find that out eventually.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @09:25PM (#39986062)
Normal people aren't hall monitors and don't really care whether you're offended, just about avoiding your censorship boot. You'll find that out eventually.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by DarkByte8 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:31PM (#39983922)
The more you talk the more people will avoid you and people like you. You are not holding people accountable you are having a power trip and enacting vengeance on perceived transgressions. He did not harass anyone and for past transgression he apologize but the CoC board member felt like he needed a power trip. People like you should be held far away from any position of power.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by PlutoIsAPlanet on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @05:58PM (#39984745)
> No. We are at the level of holding people accountable for their BEHAVIOR

Someone has been held accountable for their behaviour and apologised, it doesn't mean they're forever in your debt and on a chain.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by DarkByte8 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @11:54AM (#39980763)
> When trans people and trans allies have positions of authority in an open-source community, public transphobes will get issued preemptive bans for the health of the community and the project. It is altogether fitting and proper that this be done.

It sounds like abuse of power

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by zilti on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:13PM (#39985322)
> Refusing to acknowledge and respect a person's gender identity is transphobic

He didn't do that though. He made fun of that person's obsession with pronouns. It is so simple, really - if you're a (trans/cis) woman, it's "she/her", if you're a (trans/cis) man, it's "he/him"; and if you think you need to shove your incredible uniqueness into everyone's conversation by coming up with something else, it's time to see a therapist for your narcissism.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by josteink on Thursday April 11, 2024 @04:23PM (#40006431)
> Refusing to acknowledge and respect a person's gender identity is transphobic

No that’s simply acknowledging biological reality.

We don’t affirm schizophrenia or anorexia. Why would you affirm other mental disorders?

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by sickofparadox on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @10:34AM (#39979887)
Open source is so cooked. It will be a wonder if linux survives Torvalds' death.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by skyyler on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @11:29AM (#39980518)
Transgender contributors to open source existed before you were born and will continue to exist after you die.

Just to be clear.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by DarkByte8 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @11:47AM (#39980697)
But not with unlimited power to ban people for wrongthink.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by bitwize on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @05:27PM (#39984468)
When you make as many valuable contributions to the open source graphics stack as Lyude has, you might hold a position of significant authority within FDO or a similar project also.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by jacobgkau on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @03:35AM (#39987979)
Unless Lyude decides you need to be banned for something that happened in a different place multiple years ago, in which case your valuable contributions mean nothing and you're no longer allowed to contribute.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by bitwize on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @05:04AM (#39988537)
If you wish to study physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and the dean finds out that you have a history of painting swastikas on buildings and decides to ban your ass from campus, it's not exactly an arbitrary or capricious decision.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @01:03PM (#39993027)
Why would they ban a jew from jewish school?

Normal people don't think software projects should be like religious organizations or political clubs because making them such does nothing but harm the software.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by immibis on Thursday April 11, 2024 @03:29AM (#39999305)
Because they had a history of painting swastikas on buildings. Did you read the comment you replied to?
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Thursday April 11, 2024 @12:00PM (#40003647)
Right but that's only done by jews (see: "Hey Rabbi... Whatcha doin?"), which obviously the jews running the school would be aware of
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by skyyler on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @12:39PM (#39992727)
The ban was for something that had just happened, which was the poor response to emails and the inflammatory blog post.

People keep trying to frame it like the ban was strictly for past actions from years ago, which I find disingenuous at worst and gullible at best.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by jacobgkau on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @06:55PM (#39996543)
IMO, the rude and unprompted initial email was "inflammatory." It was responded to in kind, which the sender did not take well.

If you're that upset about someone publishing a supposedly formal email that you sent, perhaps you should consider why that is instead of just knee-jerk banning the person to protect yourself.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by PlutoIsAPlanet on Thursday April 11, 2024 @08:30AM (#40001405)
> which was the poor response to emails

The email said it wasn't up for discussion.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by skyyler on Thursday April 11, 2024 @01:58PM (#40004960)
Well gosh, why are you trying to discuss it now? Seems like a waste of time to me.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by neonsunset on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @03:03PM (#39982955)
So, skipping the debate straight to death threats? Thank you for demonstration.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by skyyler on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:44PM (#39984045)
If you consider that a death threat, I am concerned for your mental health and/or reading comprehension skills.

Have a nice day, neonsunset.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Thursday April 11, 2024 @12:48AM (#39998482)
Not the trans telling other people about their mental health lmaoooooooo
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:15PM (#39983756)
Will they? Transgender people cannot reproduce and tend to 41% fairly quickly. I bet the problem will solve itself within a decade at most.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by midnight2 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @04:18PM (#39983776)
It'll die before then, they're already putting him in a cage for not coddling people's feelings.

Already such flimsy material reasons to use or contribute to FOSS instead of using often better proprietary software. When you're endorsing the philosophy of reddit mod types by using FOSS and will get banned from contributing for being sane the negatives start to outweigh the positives

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by luyu_wu on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @12:37PM (#39981189)
Vaxry has since responded to this and apologized numerous times. As he states many times in his blogposts, he ais apologetic for this incident I, like him, fail to see why this keeps on being brung up. The server and him have changed drastically, it's not very fair to judge a changed person on their past actions.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by rtz121 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @03:39PM (#39983341)
It's never enough for these people.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by drewdevault on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @01:53PM (#39982125)
He has not made any meaningful apologies, and each example that might be construed as such is buried in qualifications and lengthy tirades about his persecution complex. Meanwhile, he continues to constantly post hateful tirades complaining about the fact that the free software community holds people accountable for their behavior. An apology without taking accountability for wrongdoing or fostering any meaningful change in behavior or attitude is worthless.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by rtz121 on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @03:41PM (#39983367)
You in particular have been doing excellent work fostering this persecution complex in him.
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by zilti on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:07PM (#39985288)
> stating that the person was making too big a deal about their pronouns

Some people turn their pronouns into their personality, and it's effing annoying. IMO it's perfectly fine to make fun of such people. Being trans doesn't protect them from being made fun of, nor does it make the person making the joke a transphobic.

Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by mplewis on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @09:56AM (#39990805)
What do you find annoying about these people?
Re:RedHat employee bans Hyprland creator from fdo by shrimp_emoji on Wednesday April 10, 2024 @07:48PM (#39996895)
If you have to even list your pronouns, you do care too much about them.

It'll be wild to look back on all this when the spell finally breaks. Do you remember that one time people lost their shit over pronouns?