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Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by martinpw on Saturday March 23, 2024 @12:08AM (#39797368)
How does feature size and scaling of memory compare with logic? It looks like leading edge memory is made by three companies - Samsung, Hynix and Micron - no TSMC. Do they use EUV? Do they use ASML machines?
Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by wtallis on Saturday March 23, 2024 @12:23AM (#39797432)
Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by wmf on Saturday March 23, 2024 @12:12AM (#39797386)
It's hard to tell because DRAM vendors talk about things like "1x nm" or "1a nm" but it sounds like they are still above 10 nm which is fairly far behind logic processes. DRAM typically sells for much cheaper than logic so they may not be able to invest as much as TSMC.
Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by boojums on Saturday March 23, 2024 @12:41AM (#39797512)
DRAM/NAND processes are optimized for different things than logic, so there isn't much cross application. My understanding is that it would be hard to make a general compute chip with a DRAM process due to a low number of metal layers, transistor types, etc. Micron [1] and Samsung have both investigated doing massively parallel compute in the memory cell, but the technology never panned out.

Regarding EUV, according to Micron's most recent quarterly report (March 20th) [2]

"We continue to mature our production capability with extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV), and have achieved equivalent yield and quality on our 1α as well as 1ß nodes between EUV and non-EUV flows. We have begun 1γ (1-gamma) DRAM pilot production using EUV and are on track for volume production in calendar 2025."

[1] https://investors.micron.com/news-releases/news-release-deta...

[2] https://investors.micron.com/static-files/1a8d6c22-3b89-4806...

Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by samcheng on Saturday March 23, 2024 @01:20AM (#39797663)
What about Apple's M-series chips, which have on-die RAM? Is that RAM significantly more expensive per GB due to the more expensive process?

(It's certainly exorbitantly expensive for retail consumers at $200 for an 8 GB RAM upgrade on a Macbook!)

Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by wmf on Saturday March 23, 2024 @01:27AM (#39797701)
Apple does not have on-die RAM. The SoC is a normal logic die and the RAM is regular DRAM.
Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by samcheng on Saturday March 23, 2024 @01:54AM (#39797785)
Ah - I see, the DRAM is literally BGA'd right next to the die. So that $200 upcharge is mostly profit... Thank you!
Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by vbezhenar on Saturday March 23, 2024 @04:01AM (#39798271)
It's called "package on package". The RAM is different chip, however it's located very close to the CPU chip and both are under a single cover. The end result is a "package".

I think that GPUs use similar approach.

Re:Micron Samples 256 GB DDR5-8800 MCR DIMMs: Modules for Se... by RF_Savage on Saturday March 23, 2024 @12:21PM (#39801001)
AMD Vega used HBM next to the GPU die, but most GPU manufacturers are now back to discrete chips on the GPU circuit board.