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Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by nothercastle on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @08:40AM (#39765600)
Car free cities are great but you have to have a lot of problems solved for them to work . You need high density, lots of public services from libraries to pools all these need to be close. Public transport has to be safe so you have to actually enforce laws and arrest vagrants. Car free needs a lot of things to go right where car full cities can be pretty disfunctional
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by pjerem on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @08:48AM (#39765687)
That’s not true. 2/3 of Parisians don’t even own a car and Paris is a very average city when it comes safety. Density is also pretty low for one of the biggest European cities.

And it’s just a known example, there are a lot of cities way smaller than Paris where it’s easy to live car free.

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by bombcar on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @08:56AM (#39765779)
2/3s sounds like a lot but it would be better to count how many households have no car.

And the US is covered with cities that can be lived in car-free; but the tradeoffs are too great for most people. (By definition any rural town that’s about a square mile or two is walkable.) Cars are so cheap and so good that most everyone grabs one when they can.

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by oaiey on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @10:30AM (#39767137)
2/3 is very realistic even for households. It is just prohibitive time wise (it takes more times in most cities to go by car than by train) and parking wise (densities is high, parking is on the street, searching a parking slot up to an hour, ...). You do not want to own a car.
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by tzs on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @11:54AM (#39768316)
Greater Paris has a 60-65% car ownership rate among households [1].

[1] https://www.ceicdata.com/en/france/motor-vehicle-ownership-p...

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by nothercastle on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @12:50PM (#39769115)
Nailed it on finding the relevant statistic that’s representative of the actual situation
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by bombcar on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @02:42PM (#39770442)
That's pretty good though depending on what "greater Paris" is I suspect it's a bowl - trending to 99% ownership the further from the center you get.

The goal shouldn't be "car free cities" it should be (at least in the USA) "first get it so households feel one car is fine".

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by oaiey on Thursday March 21, 2024 @02:43AM (#39775489)
Totally agree. Mix it is. Car free is only possible in high density, high public transport coverage inner cities.

Grande Paris is definitely not the zone I put my 2/3 statement on.

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by hawski on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @10:41AM (#39767291)
Distances are one thing, existing pavements/walkways another.
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by nothercastle on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @08:55AM (#39765770)
The French work week is 7 hours so they get an extra hour to fuck around with public transportation a day. So that might help quite a bit. Still I’d be curious how upper middle class folks with kids survive without cars. Maybe that 33% covers the affluent folks with kids tho.
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by pjerem on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @09:14AM (#39765986)
I don’t think it’s a class issue because money won’t buy the inexistant parking lots around schools. Also money can actually buy you really nice bikes.

It’s just that driving a car in Paris is hard and awful.

I lived in a city of <1M inhabitants for the first 5 years of my son’s life without a car (in fact I had one but never used it for day to day life). Public transports and bikes can get you far faster than any car in rush hours. I’ve never had more than 30-40min between my door and my office, including depositing my son. The few times I did it with the car it took me the same time thanks to traffic and it was far more stressful.

And it was in France, where public transports are ok-tier but far from top notch in Europe.

Also the 7 hour day is pretty false. That’s the minimum time of a full-time job but most people are working 39-40 hours. It’s just that the extra hours are paid or are compensated with off time.

In practice you’ll only work 7h/day if you are at the minimum wage.

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by yardie on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @09:30AM (#39766197)
35 hour work week is for government employees. Obviously, there are a lot of them but there are still more nongovernmental employees who don't have the benefit of a government job or unions that work a typical 35-45hr/week.

> Still I’d be curious how upper middle class folks with kids survive without cars.

All my middle class friends the kids walk. Everywhere. There are public restrooms everywhere. There are buses, parks, libraries, supermarkets, stores everywhere.

Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by nothercastle on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @11:30AM (#39768009)
I fully believe it’s possible if the density is there and the services are there to go with them. In the USA we sometimes get the density but not the public services and spaces.
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by jddj on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @09:08AM (#39765899)
Are you saying here that you think traveling by metro in Paris takes an hour longer than driving would?
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by nothercastle on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @12:13PM (#39768583)
Yeah if you have to change transit method it adds a lot of extra time. So metro+ bus adds at least half an hour each way
Re:People Hate the Idea of Car-Free Cities–Until They Live i... by willcipriano on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @08:43AM (#39765643)
"Do you like car free cities?"

"Oh yes!"

"Cool, Get out then."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=925wmb-4Yr4