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Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by xkzx on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @01:59AM (#39763261)
I make fermented fizzy enzyme drinks at home all the time, no soft drinks anymore. It has to be all the time as it is a perpetual drink. You buy on of those fancy hipster live enzyme drinks, but you never finish it. Just and juice, sugar, jam - whatever what bacteria like and it continues fermentation. At room temperature. Every two days it is ready again, drink it, feed it. If it is too active, put it in a fridge. I try to spread it as people have forgotten this.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by lavos83 on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @02:11AM (#39763315)
In the Netherlands it's called water and kefir. Good stuff indeed, especially during summer and basically free at the cost tapwater. No plastic packaging either! Those hipster might actually be onto something ;)
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by hetspookjee on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @02:51AM (#39763488)
Kombucha is another one.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by AYBABTME on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @03:55AM (#39763781)
I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by dekken_ on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @04:02AM (#39763831)
Counter anecdote for neutrality, I brew Kombucha and have done for a few years, worst I've done is make vinegar, YMMV
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by guappa on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @05:31AM (#39764374)
In 20 years a study will tell us how that increases the risk of cancer.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by RamblingCTO on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @04:19AM (#39763912)
Can you elaborate, what happened and how did you notice? I also do Kombucha weekly.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by AYBABTME on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @09:24AM (#39766115)
By poisoned I mean food poisoning. Not sure what happened in the batch I made but drinking the brew gave me cold sweats and fever for two days and I emptied my bowels multiple times. So I stopped there. I still love the flavor, and I love most fermented food.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by bongodongobob on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @09:41AM (#39766345)
I would bet money it was something else. Fermentation usually does a good job of keeping bad fungi out. If you were careful with sanitation, it was something else like bad leftovers or something. Also, food poisoning usually takes > 24-48 hours to kick in. So if you drank it and got sick that day, it was something you ate the day or two before.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by AYBABTME on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @10:07AM (#39766766)
It was a while back so I can't retell exactly what my day had been but I remember it was unambiguous and it was definitely the kombucha.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by ianburrell on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @01:46PM (#39769859)
"If you were careful with sanitation" is probably the important caveat. But have to keep in mind the potential danger when mess up making food. It is possible that kombucha is easier to mess up than most fermented food or cooking in general. I know beer making is very forgiving of sanitation, and isn't dangerous if mess up.

The speed of food poisoning can be hours for some pathogens. It depends on the pathogen and the amount, and if the body detects the bad food and expels it quickly.

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by RamblingCTO on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @02:04PM (#39770051)
Oh okay got it, thanks! I also get that quite a few times, but I'm certain it's more food-related, as on those days I didn't drink the booch. But now I know what to look out for, thanks!
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by depressedpanda on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @04:22AM (#39763938)
How were you poisoned? What happened to your kombucha?

When I make kombucha I am quite careless in the process, but it always turns out fine.

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by bongodongobob on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @04:22AM (#39763936)
Poisoned from what?
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by lp4vn on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @05:29AM (#39764365)
Explain this story better, please.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by berkes on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @05:38AM (#39764412)
I ferment a lot, and know of only a few dangers: some rare fruits or veggies can produce toxins when fermenting, but non that I can easily buy in a European market. Spices and some herbs can be dangerous too, but the quantities needed for toxin levels that pose a danger, are insane.

Fungi are more dangerous. If something starts growing hair, it's out.

Dairy fermentation is more dangerous ¹, and quite hard, so I avoid that.

Alcohol is obviously a toxin too, and rather common in fermentation ;)

In nearly all cases, I'll trust one of the best fine tuned measurement devices to protect humans from toxins: my taste and nose.

(Q: how do you know the milk is beyond it's expiry date? A: Smell it! Far more reliable than a date printed on some package)

¹https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356804/

Edit: another thing to be careful with, are kernels, pits, seeds and peels. Peels can often contain lots of sprayed on chemicals that will probably kill your fermenting bacteria. Pits and kernels can contain insane amounts of toxins that we usually won't eat because they are enclosed. But crushing/long fermenting might release them

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by throwup238 on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @06:32AM (#39764717)
> Alcohol is obviously a toxin too, and rather common in fermentation ;)

Also watch out for methanol. Fruit pectin gets fermented into methanol so using pectase is recommended to break it down, especially if one ferments citrus juice.

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by ryzvonusef on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @09:32AM (#39766220)
America's Test Kitchen had a very recent video on Kombucha, and in one portion[1], after showing the viewers the recipe and tools they used, show us how they gave their colleagues the exact same setup but ended up with varied results.

If people whose day job IS testing food recipes, all end up with different results from the master recipe made by their colleague, then it indicates certain external factors need to be controlled to ensure consistency.

The factor they narrowed down to, was consistency of temperature, and the solution they offered was to suggest a temperature-controlled box to ensure best results.

[1]: https://youtu.be/_e9ejoiLNlo?t=558

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by ametrau on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @01:00PM (#39769256)
Kombucha is a con.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by kristiandupont on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @02:50AM (#39763478)
>fizzy enzyme drinks

Do you mean kombucha? Kefir?

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by xkzx on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @03:23AM (#39763632)
No, I mean enzyme drink. They are called differently all over the place. They are similar to kombucha, just without all that disgusting shroom in a jar thing.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by crubier on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @06:56AM (#39764853)
Wait until you learn where the enzymes come from
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by tomek_ycomb on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @07:45AM (#39765158)
No, kvass and other 'fizzy drinks' are not kombucha

They get their fermentation from the air, ferment much lower, and do not rely on the skoby to keep it all working. On some level there is similarities, but its not the same

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by crubier on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @01:49PM (#39769894)
It's still "shroom in a jar". Kvass is made with yeast, which are fungi.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by ab71e5 on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @07:59AM (#39765277)
One that's very easy to make is bread kvass : basically just toasted bread, sugar and some yeast, either sourdough starter or regular bread yeast. It kinda tastes like a weak wheat beer. I assume with some hops it would taste even more like beer.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by HeyLaughingBoy on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @03:14PM (#39770788)
I love ginger and one easy one is ginger ale. Simply boiled ginger with sugar and after it cools add baker's yeast, bottle and let it ferment a few days. I started out using wine yeasts, but after it occurred to me that it was only going to ferment for 2-3 days (after that the yeast eats all the sugar and you lose a lot of the flavor) so I just started using whatever baking yeast I had on hand.

Deliciously alcoholic.

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by throwaway290 on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @03:18AM (#39763606)
> whatever what bacteria like

How do you know what it likes?

Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by xkzx on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @03:24AM (#39763640)
Same thing as humans like, sugar.
Re:Study Puts Fermented Foods, Not Fire, as Pivotal Moment i... by imp0cat on Wednesday March 20, 2024 @03:44AM (#39763726)
Interesting! How can you tell it's too active? It gets bubbly?