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Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by sam_lowry_ on Monday March 18, 2024 @03:29AM (#39741220)
He is attending the wrong library. Library Genesis is the way, now. And Library Sci-Hub.

And I am only half-kidding.

Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by freefaler on Monday March 18, 2024 @06:19AM (#39742130)
And annas-archive
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by d_tr on Monday March 18, 2024 @06:30AM (#39742199)
The libraries where I live are seriously a joke anyway, and even if they were not, I doubt they could compete with a website where you can find monographs addressed to like 100 people, in seconds, in your pyjamas.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by Kratacoa on Monday March 18, 2024 @06:40AM (#39742278)
All that stuff lands on LG/AA thanks to those who have subscriptions, i.e. libraries
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by juls333 on Monday March 18, 2024 @06:48AM (#39742321)
That's honestly quite tragic as we don't evolve anywhere fast enough to not be hit by global depression as the digital solitude clashes with the innate human needs of real socialization.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by irrational on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:53AM (#39743697)
You aren’t supposed to socialize at brick and mortar libraries.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by SpaceBuddha on Monday March 18, 2024 @12:52PM (#39746864)
Where on Earth did you get that idea? Every library I've ever been to has offered all kinds of events geared to "socializing," from Group Crochet, to Book discussions, to AA. Not to mention how common it is for libraries to offer "teen spaces" where kids are free to hang out, work on homework together, etc.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by itishappy on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:57AM (#39744606)
That's not really true.

> Twenty-five percent who went to the library learned about political or cultural organizations or leisure activities taking place in the local community. More than 20% went to the library with friends or colleagues to work together on a common assignment or a leisure activity. Seventeen percent used the Internet at the library to contact friends via e-mail, to chat, or to participate in discussion groups, etc. Sixteen percent used the library to learn more about local matters, social or political issues, etc., that they are involved in. Fourteen percent participated in organized meetings, such as author's nights, lectures, meetings with politicians, etc. Ten percent used the library as a place to meet family or friends before going together to the movies, into the city, to do shopping, etc. (p.19)

https://www.ala.org/tools/research/librariesmatter/use-publi...

Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by Pet_Ant on Monday March 18, 2024 @03:25PM (#39748818)
Libraries are not archives of books. They are community hubs. My local library has programs for seniors with early mental impairments to do puzzles with volunteers to slow the progression of their decline. Another has programs for street youth.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by yard2010 on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:32AM (#39743425)
I am not kidding at all. We have that government library app sort of thing. It makes you wait for a digital copy. Like there's a line of people before you, just like in an old school library.

Why? Just use Genesis

Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by 1980phipsi on Monday March 18, 2024 @08:36AM (#39743476)
I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by bluepizza on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:03AM (#39743843)
Considering certain technical books range between 70 to 300 dollars per copy, and libraries are unable to afford them, it seems to me that the incentive system is already broken.

The publishers are very comfortable with the high prices they are able to charge the quite expensive American universities.

Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by cubefox on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:39AM (#39744339)
In some academic fields, books are also just collections of technical papers on some topic, or one really long paper, which is probably not something to earn money from. I assume most are sold to libraries, similar to journals. Though Library Genesis also contains other, more commercial books.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by valdiorn on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:55AM (#39744573)
Good. There no reason to rewrite undergrad calculus books every semester besides money grabbing. The math hasn't changed in 100 years and there shouldn't be an incentive to write an updated version of the book for the 50th time.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by 2devnull on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:55AM (#39745426)
The language changes, but more importantly students backgrounds and facility with the English language changes. Not that dumbing down the text or replacing old timey words should cost much, but cost disease and all that.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by skeaker on Monday March 18, 2024 @01:36PM (#39747387)
Granted, but they definitely do not change enough to warrant a new edition every year. This can and has been experimentally confirmed by countless students even before Library Genesis simply by showing up to class with an old edition of the textbook and still learning the material fine.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by globular-toast on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:32AM (#39744227)
Does it? It seems complicated. Higher availability of books means more readers for a start. Large numbers of people don't read at all and therefore aren't even in the market for books. Then you have to consider the absurd length of copyright. How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more? Even worse, how does a dead author's estate receiving money incentivise anyone to write anything?
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by sarchertech on Monday March 18, 2024 @09:57AM (#39744608)
>How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more?

Receiving money for something you wrote 1 week ago doesn't encourage you to write more. It's the knowledge that you will receive money for next thing you wrote that incentivizes you to write more. And a 50 year payout should obviously provide more incentive than a 6 month payout.

There's going to be a point of diminishing return where adding extra years doesn't provide enough extra incentive to justify the cost, but I haven't seen any convincing evidence that 50 years is over that threshold.

The same holds true for copyright extending past the author's lifetime. Especially if an author is older, the knowledge that their children will benefit is certainly an incentive.

Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by beej71 on Monday March 18, 2024 @10:08AM (#39744779)
I don't get this argument for writing or anything else. I do things now for which I don't expect to get paid for the next 50 years. What's my incentive?
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by queuebert on Monday March 18, 2024 @11:11AM (#39745634)
Pro tip: If you are near a university, the free public wifi may give you access to its journal subscriptions.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by lupire on Monday March 18, 2024 @12:09PM (#39746354)
Where have you seen this?

Every one I've seen requires login, and usually university membership for the good stuff.

Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by fragmede on Monday March 18, 2024 @04:31PM (#39749632)
Back in the day, when MIT still owned 18.0.0.0/8, at least one journal gave blanket access to users coming from anywhere in that netblock. And there were ways to use it even if you weren’t officially affiliated as a student/faculty. Unfortunately Aaron Swartz did not use an untraceable method of access.
Re:Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to a... by OneDonOne on Monday March 18, 2024 @02:15PM (#39747908)
Not all of us are able to, or want to, use ebooks. Especially textbooks where one may be going back and forth through chapters fairly frequently. Simply saying "muh Libgen" ignores how most people , especially teenagers, study. For teenagers, any smart device will lead to distraction if connected online. They usually choose Insta over the PDF reader in their distraction.