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Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by amluto on Friday March 08, 2024 @05:55PM (#39647510)
> Microsoft simply lacked the network effects

MS beat Apple to market by a considerable margin. Windows Mobile substantially predates the iPhone, and it was actually usable. (I had one of their flagship devices.)

But MS’s OS concept was incoherent, their UI was laggy, their web browser was unbearably slow despite arguably superior hardware, their form factor was not snazzy. And, unlike Apple, they utterly failed at marketing to consumers.

Also, Apple out their foot down against carrier nonsense, so Apple users didn’t have to deal with $14.99/mo for Verizon Location or whatever they called it. (Although, to be fair, the original iPhone didn’t have GPS. Blackberry had far superior hardware at the time and really ought to have been able to compete, but they didn’t.)

By the time the App Store showed up, it was pretty clear that Apple was beating MS.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by smegger001 on Friday March 08, 2024 @06:38PM (#39647857)
blackberry didn't seem to care about regular consumers until it was to late, instead relying on corporate customers and relying on integration with enterprise messaging software.

windows was well windows 8 and everyone hated it and everything about it. (and pre-windows phone 8 it was to fragmented with to many incompatible versions and little 3rd party support)

Palm/HP WebOS was the real mobile OS with the best chance to win but failed because well HP... need i say more.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by ethbr1 on Friday March 08, 2024 @06:53PM (#39647971)
> blackberry didn't seem to care about regular consumers until it was to late, instead relying on corporate customers and relying on integration with enterprise messaging software.

Has trapped so many businesses.

Enterprise customers can afford to pay enough to support good profit margins...

... but there are many more regular consumers, and regular consumer demands tend to produce better solutions than baroque enterprise demands (usually company- or VP-specific).

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by numpad0 on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:28PM (#39649175)
I think a lot of lessons learned around iPhone 2007-2012 have to do with looking at the elephant in the room.

Blackberry was doing great with keyboards and refused to sell more of. Windows Mobile had tons of muscles as market share they just trimmed off. Windows Phone had Marketplace trust issue that couldn't be solved. Nokia burned itself down before Google. Palm did most of it right, but couldn't be bothered with exclusivity reneg.

I can't say solving any one of them could have saved each of the brands, but they all had one giant elephant each that were enough to drag them down.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by plank on Saturday March 09, 2024 @02:36AM (#39650135)
A PalmOs user myself, I remember thinking the iPhone should have had no chances against the Palms. Although, might be the reason I went the Android way when that arrived;-)
Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by berniedurfee on Saturday March 09, 2024 @12:13PM (#39653075)
There was no way big enterprises were going to allow those ‘toy’ iPhones on their network.

That was the attitude for a minute until the CEO got a cool iPhone.

Same with Macs. And jeans.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by fragmede on Friday March 08, 2024 @10:04PM (#39649086)
> Also, Apple out their foot down against carrier nonsense

This is the main point, not the "also". Apple's revolution was actually getting it in the hands of real life consumers who paid for cell phone plans. The tech was already there with blackberry, but you had to have business to afford it. Yes, the original iPhone itself was a technical marvel, but it would have been a dead fish if it wasn't for the at& t deal that came out as part of it.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by leptons on Saturday March 09, 2024 @12:42AM (#39649677)
>the original iPhone itself was a technical marvel

Apple didn't invent anything in the original iPhone, except the software. And the first version was really lacking and very buggy.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-jobs-rigged-first-iphon...

Other phones that predated the iPhone release had more capabilities and more software. There was nothing really "marvelous" about the original iPhone, it was many years behind Microsoft.

The HTC Wizard was a "technical marvel" in 2005. Apple was playing catch-up in 2007.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by fragmede on Saturday March 09, 2024 @11:33PM (#39656729)
You're right. The "technical marvel" of the iPhone was the size of its battery. Treo's and Blackberry's were already there with the hardware. But the software. Apple's pretty good with software, so their implementation also made a difference.
Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by leptons on Sunday March 10, 2024 @01:25PM (#39660841)
The iPhone had a non-removable battery, which was a step backwards for consumers. And there was nothing special about it.

At the time I had an HTC TyTN 2 phone that did everything the iPhone could do and more, and had a removable battery, about the same size as the battery inside the iPhone 1. If you look at photos of the TyTN 2 battery, and the iPhone 1 battery, they are very close to the same size.

There was very little difference between those batteries. The TyTN 2 had a 1350mA hour lithium battery. The iPhone 1 had a 1400mA hour lithium battery. Practically no difference there in size or capacity.

So, no, the iPhone's battery was not a "technical marvel" any more than other phones of that era.

And in fact Apple's was a step back by being non-removable. I absolutely loved having a removable battery, because I could bring 2 or 3 with me on a long trip and never have to charge the phone. Apple was less functional in that way.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by fragmede on Sunday March 10, 2024 @05:08PM (#39662544)
I can't comment on the TyTN2, but I'm thinking back to Blackberry employees (CEO?) saying

> "The iPhone "couldn’t do what [Apple was] demonstrating without an insanely power hungry processor, it must have terrible battery life," Shacknews poster Kentor heard from his former colleagues of the time. "Imagine their surprise [at RIM] when they disassembled an iPhone for the first time and found that the phone was battery with a tiny logic board strapped to it."

https://www.redmondpie.com/blackberry-maker-rim-thought-appl...

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by leptons on Monday March 11, 2024 @02:36AM (#39665410)
That's your rebuttal?? The engineers at blackberry were pretty inept and stuck in the past, which is why they're no longer in business. That article contributes nothing towards your claim that the first iPhone was a "technical marvel". I cited an example of a phone released in 2007 that had the same battery tech that Apple had. Was that also a "technical marvel"? And the model before it and the one before that? Apple didn't do anything groundbreaking in the first iPhone except maybe a capacitive touchscreen, which wasn't anything they invented, they were around long before the iphone.
Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by amluto on Saturday March 09, 2024 @10:58AM (#39652487)
> but you had to have business to afford it.

This was a marketing and perception issue, not a price issue. When the original iPhone came out, I had a very nice blackberry, with a personal plan, effectively unlimited data, and the full blackberry suite (minus corporate integration, obviously). And I think it was less expensive than the iPhone plan. But it was a pain in the neck! I had to pick the correct phone plan, add the correct data supplement, negotiate the correct discount (basically everyone was eligible for a discount, but you had to find your particular reason for being eligible in a ridiculous menu), and then convince the sales person to add the special $3.99/mo supplement for blackberry services. It clearly never occurred to anyone involved that this was not a competent way to sell to consumers!

I did make fun of my friends for paying several dollars more per month for a device with no keyboard, no GPS, slower data, less efficient text input, and dramatically worse performance in marginal network conditions.

When I finally switched to an iPhone 3G, I could do real in the browser, but wow, the ability to make phone calls was seriously downgraded. I feel like my old blackberry may have had the best behaved cellular modem of any smart device I’ve ever owned.

I think that, if RIM had gotten YouTube and a music player working, had improved the web browser, and stuck a capacitive touch sensor on their device, and if they had marketed it competently (make it so that customers could walk into a store, pay $55/mo, and walk away with a working device without a fight!), they might have remained competitive.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by mr_toad on Friday March 08, 2024 @11:19PM (#39649334)
Microsoft repeatedly tried to put Windows on a phone and it didn’t stick.

Apple didn’t bother, they used an entirely different UI from the start, and it was a UI aimed at everyone from kids to grandparents, not just tech people.

Re:Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account by chii on Saturday March 09, 2024 @01:23AM (#39649831)
> put Windows on a phone and it didn’t stick.

that's because they half assed it.

There's always the risk that mobile phones supersedes the desktop, and thus cannibalize the desktop windows sales. Microsoft also likely not able to force OEM licensing in the same way that they could with windows on PC sellers.

If you could literally run windows apps on a phone back then, i reckon the MS phones would've at least grabbed some marketshare. Of course, the mobile hardware back then isn't as powerful, so there's the excuse that win32 cannot run there.