Yes? Housing is infinitely better than the US, job security can be better, work life balance is better, cities are nicer to look at, architecture is better, people are more active, fitter, have lives beyond work. The bread is better, so is the cheese. There is real food available. Public transport is plentiful. Society feels a bit less polarised.

The EU is infinitely better than living in the states. At least for this third world immigrant.

Interesting. I thought housing in the EU has been a challenge for generations with home ownership a difficult to impossible goal for most people, with this being the case across the region. In the US the housing affordability issue is in a few highly desirable urban areas, but not being generally case across the country.

I think the bread in the US, sans the supermarket stuff, is generally exceptional with bakeries throughout most cities that are top notch. Some of the best creameries in the world are in the US now. Beer is also generally more innovative and better. There is also a much broader food community in that I can eat food from every culture on earth with pretty high quality in every city. Europe tends to be much less diverse and less creative in its foods. However, yes, if you only eat fast food and shop at big box grocery stores (which also exist in Europe) staples are pretty low quality.

The US has a very strong and thriving food movement, and isn’t a strict monoculture by geography. There are layers upon layers of cultures intertwined throughout the country. Generically “American culture” is essentially a marketing regime for large companies selling their stuff. But the reality of America is much more complex than that, and that’s accelerated since the 1950’s, and was completely broken down in the 1990’s.

Most of the polarization stems from that destruction of the American monoculture belief system and a reaction against that. It’s the last gasp of people who see a way of thinking falling apart. But what comes out of that cultural change is excellent bread, cheese, beer, etc.

" But the reality of America is much more complex than that, and that’s accelerated since the 1950’s, and was completely broken down in the 1990’s. " You complain a lack of seing the complexity of American food but instead you have a simple view of the European cultures. Have you been ever in any European country and when? I have the feeling you havent been.

fnordpiglet posted literally nothing about Europe. Where are you drawing your opinion of his/her view of European cultures from?

This whole thread is just bizarre.

Well, except for: "Europe tends to be much less diverse and less creative in its foods."

I’ve traveled through most of Europe and the UK for pleasure but also regularly visit Germany, Italy, France, Ireland, Scotland, England, and Switzerland for work.

If I go to your average Italian city I simply won’t find good Thai food. I’ll get a lot of great Italian food for sure. But no Malay, no Nepalese, no afghan, no Peruvian, etc. I’m sure you’ll find counter examples, but the US genuinely is a melting pot with well established ethnic subcultures of all cultures on earth and the general society is pretty open. There’s no French nationalism etc. The thing is there’s no established cultural monoculture like you find in most of the world - what people mistake for a lack of culture in America is that it’s a palimpsest of hundreds of cultures, and they all bring their foods to the American table.

This isn’t a knock on the modern multiculturalism in Europe, it’s more a statement that the established historic cultures in Europe squeeze out the diversity more than in the US with its lack of established historic culture that has almost entirely evaporated in the last 80 years.

I can’t say I agree with this assessment. There’s good Thai food in NYC, but probably less so in rural New York. In the same way, there’s amazing Thai food in Berlin, but probably not in rural Bavaria.

Also, in your average Italian city, the average meal will still be healthier than the average American meal. The idea of food deserts is what doesn’t exist in Europe, at least not Western Europe. The local mom and pop shops still have veggies and fruits, and I was amazed to find none within biking distance when I was in the US.

I don’t want to have to need to shop at Trader Joes, Whole Foods, or live in a posh city to avoid having to eat over-processed food and be constipated all of the time.

Even my city in germany that has ~25k inhabitans has: italian, greek, turkish, chinese, and I think thai as well. And that is just off the top of my head all within a ~5min walking distance.

One thing to bear in mind; if you’re a tourist in a place, you tend to be exposed to the touristy stuff. Italy actually is an example where getting good non-Italian food may be difficult even in many large cities (this broadly makes sense; it has the oldest population in Europe and one of the lowest immigration rates), but it’s a bit of an outlier there; most large European cities will do better.

> I thought housing in the EU has been a challenge for generations with home ownership a difficult to impossible goal for most people, with this being the case across the region.

Who told you that? I mean, it’s certainly the case in some places (particularly in large affluent cities), but, much like in the US, it’s variable. If you take EU countries and the US and rank by home ownership percentage, the US is on the low end (even Ireland, with its long-running nationwide housing crisis, beats the US here). Notably _Germany_ is much lower (65% of US homes are owner occupied, 50% of German homes), but Germany’s an outlier in Europe on this; to a large extent it’s driven by below-cost social housing.

It appears you lived in the US for a while and have some resentments, but the parent comment didn't even mention the US.

But apart from the housing, fitness, public transport, cities, work life balance, architecture, job security and cheese, what has the EU done for us?

Quality of life, work-life balance, good schools, good transport, lots of consumer protections, human rights & rights for minorities, 70 years of peace.

Economic growth isn't great but could be a lot worse if I look at the rest of the world.

Energy transition for sure has some huge challenges but again, we're doing pretty great compared to other places in the world.

Housing is an issue, but where isn't housing an issue?

>70 years of peace.

Which 70 years?

The 70 years the US paid for of course :)

I think Europe paid for it with interest, see the huge US government debt financed by printing petrol dollars

After the gold standard everyone except the US has been paying for it

As someone who recently bought a house in the EU, IMO the best place to make money is the US. But, the best place to spend it is the EU. Much like doing the location/CoL arbitrage in the US, it's even better if you can get higher end US salaries and do a quality of life arbitrage to the EU.

The EU is on a roll politically, it's much more agile and expertise-focused than most governments. Also he ceiling is a lot higher than in the US given that half of the EU is underdeveloped. Look at Estonia's potential for example, Bolt is the fastest growing transportation company globally.

There's a ceiling?

There is, it's called workforce. Incase you need an example, TSMC recently pushed back its fab plans in the US by atleast a year because they couldn't find enough specialists.

Economic growth can come from productivity gains without any material change in workforce.

TSMC's delays have to do with not offering enough pay not a lack of people capable of installing wafer fab tools or building electrical or mechanical systems for fabs.