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Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by o11c on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:27PM (#39578169)
Title really undersells this. It is very much not a "we want free backups" thing, but "we want to be able to do non-iCloud backups at all":

> Much of the lawsuit’s emphasis is on the fact that iPhone users only have one option when it comes to full device backups

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by aurareturn on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:28PM (#39578175)
If they want multiple options, maybe they can buy Android?

I buy iPhones because I want a tightly integrated environment.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by _aavaa_ on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:36PM (#39578211)
Allowing another option does not decrease that integration.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by yftsui on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:55PM (#39578291)
Of course it does. With a given number of resources, more options needs to be supported means less resource spend on each one.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by afavour on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:59PM (#39578308)
Apple is more than able to increase resources to accommodate.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by aurareturn on Sunday March 03, 2024 @12:30AM (#39578679)
Yes, someone would have to pay for that engineering resource to make the support. I don’t want to pay for it because I prefer iCloud backup already.

The core issue here is whether governments should control how iOS is designed and which part of iOS.

Furthermore, it can be argued that forcing iOS to be more like Android decreases competition. If you want a more open platform, just get an Android phone.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by smoldesu on Sunday March 03, 2024 @01:14PM (#39582893)
> The core issue here is whether governments should control how iOS is designed and which part of iOS.

That's Apple's core issue, maybe.

Now, look at it from the perspective of a sovereign market. Their core issue (a-la United States v. Microsoft Corp.) is how much they are willing to allow while admitting market access. In Microsoft's case, their manipulation of technical capabilities was considered illegal monopoly action. Apple is treading on the exact same ground with Safari and going even further in the case of the App Store - corrective litigation was an inevitability.

Apple ultimately doesn't have to abide by the EU's decisions if they don't intend to intend to access their markets. Governments[0] already[1] control[2] so much[3] of iOS[4] though[5] that it's kinda a moot point =)

> Furthermore, it can be argued that forcing iOS to be more like Android decreases competition.

It can be argued that competition with Android is not what iCloud, Safari and App Store regulation is about. It's certainly not mentioned anywhere in the DMA or Japan's equivalent legislation.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-...

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Prism_sl...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/us/politics/nso-contract-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

[4] https://support.apple.com/en-us/111754

[5] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/1/22361762/iphone-russia-sta...

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by al_borland on Sunday March 03, 2024 @03:11AM (#39579333)
All of this comes at the expense of focus on the things that really matter.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by afavour on Sunday March 03, 2024 @08:34AM (#39580739)
It really doesn’t. It comes at the expense of a rounding error in Apple’s annual profits.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by shreyansh_k on Sunday March 03, 2024 @01:12PM (#39582862)
It is difficult to take you seriously. No offence, but, I mean, you do not have the authority to decide how another company/person gets to spend their focus, money and efforts or what is best for them, when you don't have that kind of relationship with them.

Personally, I can only take you seriously if I was working at Apple in such a capacity and then you reached out to me with a good case on why investing in such a effort would be good in context of my relationship with Apple and the world. Arguments to the effect of "you have a lot of money" don't count.

If people dislike the above take, they are free to disrupt this ecosystem by making their own companies to compete with Apple... otherwise they can (and should) pound sand.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by afavour on Sunday March 03, 2024 @02:02PM (#39583346)
> No offence, but, I mean, you do not have the authority to decide how another company/person gets to spend their focus

I'm sorry but it's difficult to take this perspective seriously.

It ought to be very obvious that in the context of a Hacker News comment I am not claiming authority to decide what Apple does. I am merely stating that if Apple decided to support third party backup solutions they have more than enough spare money to increase resources rather than, as the OP suggested would be necessary, divert resources away from something else. The OP's "with a given number of resources" qualifier is incorrect because that number isn't actually constant.

The lengths some folks go to on Hacker News to defend Apple absolutely astounds me. They're a multinational corporate, they don't care about any of us here. Stating the simple fact that Apple has the ability to increase their resources is not somehow offensive.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by shreyansh_k on Sunday March 03, 2024 @02:29PM (#39583615)
Statements such as "Stating the simple fact that Apple has the ability to increase their resources is not somehow offensive." is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Plenty of people (and their companies) die trying to "increase their resources". Apple is no different or special from any of the other companies participating in the economy. I'm not an Apple fanboy but even I do see the point that statements such as "enough spare money" generally do not get anywhere simply because they patronise their targets and imply that somehow someone being rich makes it morally correct to grift them or break them.

It is agreeable that Apple doesn't care about any of us here. It's simply due to the fact that our relationship with any company is purely transactional. No one shouldn't be burdened with the responsibility of something they can't control, thus, no one should hold other in responsibility of something they have don't have authority over.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by afavour on Sunday March 03, 2024 @02:38PM (#39583699)
“Other companies have failed in the past so we shouldn’t assert anything about a public company’s finances” is just silly. I’m not making a legally binding statement in a court filing or something. We might as well just shut down Hacker News entirely if we aren’t able to talk freely.

> imply that somehow someone being rich makes it morally correct to grift them or break them.

I can’t help but feel like you’re injecting an unrelated personal view into the discussion here. Apple is not a person, personifying a company muddies the waters, not clear them.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by shreyansh_k on Sunday March 03, 2024 @03:11PM (#39584032)
> “Other companies have failed in the past so we shouldn’t assert anything about a public company’s finances”

Please don't put words in my mouth. My original statement was only to the effect of "people (who are not associated to a respective company) shouldn't take calls on how the respective company should spends their budgets" and not to discourage the discussion of the finances of a company.

I assure that it definitely is a personal view... and all of us are projecting our own personal view(s) in this discussion _because_ this discussion is largely about the many ways to interpret this.

Anyway, not to take anything away from your point, even in the eyes of American/European law, a corporation is sometimes actually treated as a person, depending on circumstances. So, I think it is useful to look from that perspective as well.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by smoldesu on Sunday March 03, 2024 @06:13PM (#39585408)
> Statements such as "Stating the simple fact [...]" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

That statement is just a fact. Normal people are not being offended by calls to regulate Apple, most of them don't even realize until they update their iPhone to Apple's conformant implementation and scare-ware modals.

You know what people want? They want all their messaging apps to go away so their carriers can finally figure out what "SMS" actually means. They want mobile sites to stop saying "This resource is not compatible with Safari", and they want developers to offer them better experiences at lower prices. Apple has the largest margins of any hardware manufacturer in their league, and software margins just as large as the industry leaders. It's not just that Apple has money; it's that they have no excuse to neglect the development of their platform. They are replete with capital, and spend those financial resources blocking out their competitors.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by _aavaa_ on Monday March 04, 2024 @10:52AM (#39591844)
It’s a bucket for bits. The iPhone does the diffing for the backup and encryption and then sends the data to the server. How many resources are needed to implement an if-statement for picking which address to upload to?
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by malermeister on Sunday March 03, 2024 @03:23AM (#39579384)
And if you want to fuel your Ford, you better only use Ford branded fuel. Oh and this Ikea bowl can only be filled with ikea brand meatballs.

Can't you see how ridiculously anticompetitive this attitude is?

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by echoangle on Sunday March 03, 2024 @04:13AM (#39579579)
Actually I don’t really see the problem as long as there is a free competitor (Android). Just boycott Ford/Ikea in these cases and don’t buy their products. It only becomes a problem if everyone does this, the question is if you want to stop it at the start and prevent anyone from doing this, or if you want to allow it until it becomes a problem
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by aurareturn on Monday March 04, 2024 @04:10AM (#39588432)
No, I don't think it's ridiculous.

I will vote with my wallet. If Ikea branded meatballs and their bowls combo provides more value for me, I would buy them.

Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by bestnameever on Saturday March 02, 2024 @10:57PM (#39578302)
Can't you backup your device locally?
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by afavour on Saturday March 02, 2024 @11:03PM (#39578320)
I’m assuming cloud backups, the way the vast majority of users back up, is what’s being discussed.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by o11c on Sunday March 03, 2024 @01:08AM (#39578841)
That would've been a reasonable argument back in the day when there were more computers than phones.
Re:Class action lawsuit over Apple's 5GB iCloud limit and iO... by ksec on Sunday March 03, 2024 @08:42AM (#39580776)
Really wished Time Capsule for iOS is a thing.