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Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by ooterness on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:29PM (#39493901)
I've never forgiven them for shutting down Google Reader. Never again. Self-hosted open source software for life.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by kyrra on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:06PM (#39494238)
Googler, opinions are my own.

I wasn't at Google during the reader shutdown, but after being here at 8 years, I now understand why things shut down so often.

Google has a lot of shared infra and they are always doing forced migrations and various unfunded mandates. Depending on the stack, maintaining a project at Google takes 0.5-3 people (like if a UI toolkit is turned down, you have to migrate). Plus there are infra costs.

On top of that, being on maintenance for a project like Reader, it's probably not very good for your career trajectory. The adverse effects of always going for launching/landing destroyed so much at Google.

Many engineers would love to just help maintain software like that, it just doesn't tend to work out given the incentive structures. (Plus that headcount and infra has to be attributed to some team. A person maintaining Reader means some other thing that can't be built, so there isn't an incentive for VPs either)

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by harles on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:26PM (#39494423)
I was at Google during the reader shutdown. It was absolutely a top down decision and not a lack of support due to incentives. The execs tried to frame it as an infra problem/cost of migration, but neither myself nor any of my coworkers believed that at the time.

It was very telling during TGIF that week when Larry and Sergey skipped literal pages worth of top questions about it and refused to give direct answers as to why it was shut down.

The Reader shutdown coupled with Google+ reaching its tendrils into every product (“hey, real identities are great for YouTube users!”) at the time convinced me “don’t be evil” may have been a goal, but “don’t miss out on profit” was a requirement.

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by kyrra on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:53PM (#39494631)
Can we blame Vic still? (He obviously convinced Larry and Sergey)
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by philsnow on Saturday February 24, 2024 @06:26PM (#39496092)
IIRC there were volunteers, at least 3 or 4 engs who were content to work on maintaining it either as their 100% project or as their 120% project, but it just wasn't an option.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by from-nibly on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:36PM (#39494493)
That's the problem though isn't it. Google doesn't want to maintain stuff otherwise they would incentivize it. Classic "The purpose of the system is what it does"
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by wojciechpolak on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:16PM (#39494327)
I wonder how many people maintain Gmail...
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by lbhdc on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:23PM (#39494385)
Gmail is a huge data source for their ad business. They use it to fingerprint people all over the web (sign in with google). I imagine they see it as essential to their ad stack.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by crazygringo on Saturday February 24, 2024 @05:43PM (#39495813)
Forget about ads, Gmail is essential to paying Workspace customers.

They don't need it to fingerprint people by forcing them to sign in -- Google has enough other priorities like Search, YouTube, Chrome, for that.

Making Gmail available for free to consumers, along with Docs and Drive, isn't something to drive ad sales. It's to get everybody used to the products and liking them, so that businesses choose them instead of MS. Google has successfully turned themselves into the main alternative to MS Office with this strategy.

When it comes to Gmail, Docs and Drive, Google's making their money "honestly" -- not through ads but through paid corporate subscriptions, and a smattering of consumer ones (like extra storage).

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by TheRealPomax on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:55PM (#39494647)
This raises questions (that you probably can't answer, but still) about why Google doesn't have a "maintenance subsidiary" playbook, where instead of killing a project off, they spin it off, with a bucket of cash to last that project 3 years, after which they'll have to have figured out their own monetization plan (or open source transition) while still having access to everything Google because it'd just be another Alphabet-owned company.

Not every engineer wants to live the fast-paced "create and move on" life, there are so many skilled engineers who would happily take the lower salary, but also lower-pressure, maintenance jobs.

If a project makes a million bucks under Google, that doesn't even remotely push the needle and it gets shut down. If a 5 man subsidiary makes a million bucks, that's a million bucks. Foster that?

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by titanomachy on Saturday February 24, 2024 @05:21PM (#39495656)
It’s not necessarily straightforward or cheap to migrate a living product to open-source land. Backend services at Google are built using proprietary frameworks and infrastructure for which no equivalent exists out in the real world. They could help people out a bit by open-sourcing the web front-end, but that’s substantial work and you’re still a long way from having a working clone of the product.

EDIT: I see I misread your comment and you’re talking about keeping it on Google infra but separating it for accounting purposes. It’s an interesting idea but I don’t see why it would fundamentally change the viability of the product. Also, there’s an ongoing maintenance cost to having more products on shared infra. If you’re the team that runs the global distributed relational db (for example), or maintains the C++ discrete optimization library, it’s much simpler to support two products that make a billion each rather than 2,000 subtly different use-cases each making a million each. Not to mention costs incurred by non-engineering departments (marketing, accounting, legal).

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by TheRealPomax on Saturday February 24, 2024 @05:55PM (#39495897)
Not just separated for accounting purposes: literally make it a new company under the Alphabet umbrella (spinning up an LLC is basically a Tuesday afternoon for Alphabet) and then seeing if, as its own entity with an Alphabet "series A" grant, it can keep the product alive or not. And then if that company fails: bonus, Google didn't kill it, the market did.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by TaylorAlexander on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:56PM (#39494144)
I’ve sort of gone halfway. I self host my blog but when Ghost1 was deprecated I failed to do the maintenance needed to move to Ghost2, and the site has kind of stagnated for me. It doesn’t take much effort but I have so many things, and administering servers is not really how I’d like to spend my time.

The mastodon server I signed up to is getting slow and inconsistent. I’ve thought of self hosting, but it’s the same concern.

I administer a digital ocean droplet with discourse for a work forum. One day, maybe after a normal apt software upgrade, it disappeared from the web. I could only access it via the web SSH panel. Something went horribly wrong on network config. I spent a long time trying to rectify it, and finally moved to a backup from the week before. Then software upgrade was fine.

I believe in open source. I run Linux, use Kdenlive for video editing, Inkscape, Gimp, everything I can that is open. My whole life is committed to my own open source project.

But managing servers, even as easy as digital ocean is, is never how I want to spend my time, sadly.

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by sharperguy on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:34PM (#39493943)
It was the perfect execution of Microsoft's "embrace, extend and destroy" tactic. Another example was ditching XMPP support in google chat / hangouts.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by doublerabbit on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:53PM (#39494116)
As well as disabling Usenet groups readership.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by medstrom on Saturday February 24, 2024 @03:33PM (#39494923)
Ironically, Usenet seems to be growing more popular! For all the same reasons alternative social media are growing.

Google Groups shut down for good three days ago, so their fingers are out of the pie, but humans haven't used that for a while, they just sign up on services like https://www.eternal-september.org/ and hook up a NNTP client.

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by Andrex on Saturday February 24, 2024 @06:23PM (#39496073)
I thought Usenet users wanted that due to spam from Groups?
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by doubled112 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:34PM (#39493947)
Google Reader triggered my self-hosting, limited Google usage habits, so I owe them one!
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by theturtletalks on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:51PM (#39494101)
Honestly, HN triggered my self-hosting from all the stories of people getting fucked over by proprietary software over the years.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by xk_id on Saturday February 24, 2024 @06:40PM (#39496155)
Perhaps google’s long-term contribution to the internet was definitively proving the importance of self-hosted and free, open source software — by epitomising what can go horribly wrong with the alternative. Hopefully in a generation from now this will be just common sense.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by ewoijfawoifj on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:38PM (#39493972)
What's the self-hosted open source alternative that's actually good? I've been using Inoreader because the UI for any alternative is mediocre.

I'd like it to work on web and Android, sync back and forth properly, and look nice (sidebar, keyboard shortcuts, etc) and nothing else appears to provide this.

Plus, Inoreader allows you to assign a single feed to multiple folders (tag style) which many other readers don't allow.

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by rakoo on Saturday February 24, 2024 @03:43PM (#39495009)
FreshRSS, works well directly from the browser, desktop or mobile.

What I like about it is that you can gradually work your unread list: if you're in a specific feed and mark it as read it switches to the next feed only with unread items. If you do it from a category it switches to the next category. I find it helps a lot going quickly through a mountain of new unread items.

Not saying others don't do it, but this one does, so I'm keeping it.

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by aquova on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:45PM (#39494042)
I've been using FreshRSS for a while and I've been rather pleased with it. It's browser UI is pretty good and a good number of mobile RSS apps support it.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by ericjmorey on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:33PM (#39494472)
Miniflux has good integrations and third party UIs that look great. But I'm fine with the default UI themes. Selfhost or pay $15/year to use the flagship hosted instance.

https://miniflux.app/docs/index.html

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by dade_ on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:04PM (#39494219)
I use Newsblur, it’s open source and you can self host, but for the price of the service, I am happy to pay. There are apps for most every platform.

https://github.com/samuelclay/NewsBlur

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by haunter on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:20PM (#39494362)
>you can self host

You can but do you?

I use the Newsblur too, paying for it too but reading around reddit self-hosting is incredibly complicated and then you also need to build and deploy your own mobile apps too

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by nirav72 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @06:15PM (#39496021)
I've been using commafeed for a few months now. The UI is closest thing to GReader I've seen. It's still a bit light on features compared to other more older and popular self-hosted RSS reader options. But it works well and gets frequent updates.

https://www.commafeed.com

Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by ooterness on Sunday February 25, 2024 @01:53AM (#39498308)
I've been using FreshRSS for several years, and like it quite a lot.
Re:Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023) by sys_64738 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:06PM (#39494237)
A GOOG free existence is good for the soul.