The engineering leadership was going downhill with layoffs and politics. We would have the quality of the firmware/smartcast be rock solid and then following quarter it took a nose dive. Some of the best people I ever worked with are no longer there.

And last I know, VIZIO isn't like samsung and tries to randomly find an internet connection to update firmware. I still use my free 70in with Apple TV and it is great because I disconnected it from the internet (after I was laid off).

Personally, I don't own any TV, since I use my monitors. But it does beg the question of why monitors don't have these kinds of issues. Why are companies happy to sell me a "dumb" monitor, but won't sell me a TV unless it includes a bunch of fragile "smart" features?

The trend of coupling the TV to the computer (as opposed to using something like Chromecast) is the primary driver of the enshittification of the TV market. And this shouldn't be surprising - just look at what happened when the auto industry tried to invent and maintain their own entertainment systems. Ironically, they eventually came around to decoupling and delegating that work to Apple and Google, whereas TVs had it right at first and then made it worse.

I understand the business reasons why TV manufacturers want to own the computer part of their TV too. But it still doesn't have to be tightly coupled to the TV. If they really believed in their product, they could sell a dumb TV along with a dongle that competes with Chromecast. But if their product sucks and nobody would buy it, then they need to resort to forcing it on consumers as the default mode of operation.

But to be fair to TV manufacturers, if you're selling a 4K TV - you need buyers to be able to get 4K content on it.

And you've got to be a rocket scientist to get 4K video from Netflix, because of all the DRM you have to navigate. Remove the smart TV functions and 90% of customers would probably end up only getting 720p because they sacrificed a chicken instead of a swan and got their graphics card blessed by a priest and an imam but not a rabbi too.

Once they start locking basic functions behind garbage like that, I'll roll to a large monitor or projector.

What will never happen is me buying a TV, then ceding control of said device to the manuf. They can fuck right off with that invasive garbage.

YMMV.

I'm with you. Arrrrgggg, matey.

They will one day have cellular modems so they can phone without your permission

You don't understand the level of "Fuck these people and their invasive shit" that I'm will to go to.. lol

I thought it would be a Faraday cage and cut that out?

There could also be a cellular extender inside the building. I happen to work in a building with LOTS of materials that block signals from the outside. The windows are bulletproof, the walls contain metal plates, etc.

We have to use a cellular extender to get cell signal inside, however, the building wasn't designed as a Faraday cage. It just happens to hamper signals in a similar way.

Because “Smart Features” are a Trojan horse for giving the TV manufacturers ongoing revenue via ad sales and viewing metrics. This has allowed them to significantly mark down the TV selling prices as the sale price is now subsidized by the ad revenue.

Vizio actually pioneered this model with their “Inscape” product.

This is a trade off that most buyers will happily make, including the ones tech savvy enough to just not hook up the WiFi.

There’s zero market for TVs without smart features at the price they’d have to be sold at.

Oh, I guess you haven't heard of Samsung Smart Monitors - https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/monitors/smart-monitors... - which now bring spying and ads on your computer monitors too! ;)

They are a little more fragile than your typical TV - move them around with care.

The speakers are much much worse than average - you are going to want a soundbar.

The IR receiver is oddly placed, so you have to be a bit more exact when aiming the remote.

TVs from about a decade ago fit the bill while being of "acceptable" 1080p quality. Lord knows the manufacturers aren't bothering with updates anymore if they even supported them. My primary TV is a Samsung from 2012 and I've never felt the need to upgrade. I can't tell any quality difference from any non-high end TV today.

So, you're using a free or subscription service that's enshittifying. Bad enough, but okay just stop using it or unsubscribe.

But, the idea that you can outright buy a product then have it change in any way that materially impacts its usefulness or your satisfaction with it is customer hostile at a minimum; and straight-up fraud at worst.

Between everything-as-a-subscription, monopolies, the rise of the billionaire oligarchy, defanging of our regulatory apparatus, Citizens United, etc. we're becoming a society of semi-autonomous renters.

But, I guess we shouldn't worry too much. Soon enough, Zuck will bring us our VR utopia, and we'll all be eating steak in the matrix.

Don't connect it to the internet.

Show me a model number where you cannot plug in HDMI and watch from an input without connecting to the Internet. If this is truly happening, it should be easy to find YouTube and TikTok videos from customers and reviewers.

They include it in the setup screens, but they let you plug in HDMI and it works without internet. Even Amazon Fire TVs (the worst in terms of privacy) has a store mode that removes most of the "smart" features.

It does not allow you to view the HDMI ports until it is setup; setup requires an internet connection. I don't have it any more.

WebOS is slow, picture is fine and I even updated FW on it... using USB thumbdrive. Never connected it to the Internet even once.

Some may say there may be improvements, but the streamed ads, and surveillance and phoning home of my behavior, the benefits of privacy certainly outweigh the downsides.

Somehow, 3 years later, it still recommends the movie "Hancock" every time I turn it on. Perhaps it was the last ad it ever fetched? And it has an eternal cache? Who knows.

Turn off wifi, get a chromecast, an Apple TV, or a gaming console.

Xbox one, it's bundles of ads. When it first released, the UX was so horrible, I remember getting lost trying to find the menu to launch a game from disc. I had to page through ads just to find it.

Playstation, there's popups, and non-disable-able promotions for games and subsriptions. (There's also these "Stories" I think they're called, that tell you about the progress in a game, that are heavy with spoilers").

Both interfaces are masterclasses in optimizing noise/signal and adding as much noise as possible before the user stops using it.

Netflix posted a tech article on their data engineering practices. A group of people will start complaining about the quality of Netflix content.

Youtube posted an article on their new database. Endless complaining about Youtube ads.

Cloudflare posted an article on scaling their new edge workers. Complaining about font-size or scrolling would ensue.

Why do people treat HN like a support forum? There seems to be less and less "hacker" discussion and more and more "whiner" discussion.

The topic is about Walmart purchasing Vizio. Discussing the quality of Vizio’s products, their business practices, and anecdotal experience + general discussion about the companies involved in the purchase are entirely reasonable.

Oh yeah. I forgot to add the reddit smart-pant "ackshually" reply. You are right on point playing the part.

My policy is to never connect these TVs to the internet. If I accidentally bought one that required it I would return it to the store as defective.

Of course, that won't stop them from programming the firmware to wait until outside the return period to start demanding internet access. And I expect sets to start showing up with built in 5G you can't turn off quite soon. The perversion of ad and user tracking will never be satisfied, it is a cancer that only stops if the host cells have entirely died.