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Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bombcar on Saturday February 10, 2024 @11:41AM (#39327610)
These kinds of things are side-effects of "tenant's rights" laws.

Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. The problem is that this is antithetical to higher density, because you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex. You can have condos perhaps, but not everyone can afford to get into one, or even wants to.

And if there's a lack of landlords willing to rent, there will be a lack of landlords willing to build to rent, and so the housing stock will continue to increase at a glacial pace.

The laws of unintended consequences can strike in weird ways - making it easier to evict may result in more housing in total ...

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by username332211 on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:06PM (#39327930)
> The problem is that this is antithetical to higher density, because you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex.

Most of Europe somehow manages to live in individually-owned private apartments. Even if you rent, the landlord will rarely own the entire building.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by techbrovanguard on Saturday February 10, 2024 @11:58AM (#39327834)
> Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business.

Great! Housing should never have been allowed to become a commodity.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by lotsofpulp on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:27PM (#39328182)
Did you read the rest of the comment?

How do you solve the problem of condo owners not maintaining a property and letting problems fester for a couple decades after which they might be dead or move out?

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by seszett on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:37PM (#39328286)
Condos are just a kind of appartement, right?

There is normally a kind of owners assembly in which the various owners can take (binding) decisions or action regarding such problems or anything that concerns the building as a whole. It might not be mandatory in all countries I suppose, but it should be.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bombcar on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:57PM (#39328493)
It's called a home owner's associate or condo board or similar. And a relatively common issue is underfunding it, so one of the things you have to be aware of if buying a "used" condo is how funded the association is, or you may find that the "deal" you got compared to others in the area is because you're going to be hit with a $50k additional assessment in a few years to fix deferred maintenance.

Extreme examples include: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by carom on Saturday February 10, 2024 @02:14PM (#39329280)
This is really the theme of this thread. You hate renters and want a world of single family homes or massive government intervention. Landlords meet a housing need, taking property they own and subdividing it so it is affordable for others to live in an area.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by lazide on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:36PM (#39337859)
It wouldn't surprise me if they are personally a frustrated renter who can't see or manage the expectations that are making them frustrated. Been there, it sucks. Turns out I had a deeply manipulative set of folks around me at the time, and I was also wildly desensitized/in denial to my own needs.

I cannot express how much pain occurred to figure that out! Still occurring.

The good news for them is, in 5-10 years the dynamics will likely look very different. It's already been changing against landlords, for instance with the covid rent holds, rent control expanding in some areas, cost of money rising and changing market dynamics, etc. I expect a lot of landlords will be trying to exit shortly, and the ones who think they can't are going to be trying to squeeze as much return as they can - as their expected future return due to speculative property prices disappears.

So poster - it might be more worthwhile taking an inventory of who is around you (and if the influence they have is helping you), what YOU actually want your life to look like long term and your own values, and figure out how to get there and if you're willing to pay that price or not.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by lazide on Sunday February 11, 2024 @12:38PM (#39336723)
The pro of it being a commodity (widely available, easily traded, of easily quantifiable quality and accessible quantity) is important to get what you say you want! For 'sellers', it actually makes life a bit harder as they have much smaller profit margins in general and need to get very good at what they do to compete. If you think making housing not a commodity is going to make it easier to access, you're not paying attention.

It may produce more bespoke, custom houses though. But they'll only go to those who can afford to do a LOT more to get it.

The reason why that listing has a $15k broker fee is exactly BECAUSE of the weird and hard to deal with reality that is a rent controlled apartment in NYC.

There are probably other off the books type things going on too, IMO.

If you want something transparent and easy to get for the average person, making it a commodity with clear rules is exactly what you want! If you want to incentivize gaming the system, the other direction encourages that.

Regardless of if it is a commodity or not, there needs to be constant vigilance regarding manipulation, scams, etc. Scams and manipulations are easier to hide when goods AREN'T commodities. There are some amazing horror stories (on both 'sides' of the economy) behind NYC rent controlled apartments and living in NYC in general.

[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity]

From the link:

"1 : an economic good: such as a : a product of agriculture or mining agricultural commodities like grain and corn b : an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment reported the damaged commodities to officials c : a mass-produced unspecialized product commodity chemicals commodity memory chips 2 a : something useful or valued that valuable commodity, patience also : THING, ENTITY b : CONVENIENCE, ADVANTAGE … the many commodities incidental to the life of a public office … —Charles Lamb 3 : a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (such as brand name) other than price 4 : one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market … stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry. —Film Quarterly 5 obsolete : QUANTITY, LOT"

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by Tijdreiziger on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:01PM (#39327868)
The solution is strengthening the social housing sector. If anybody would be able to rent housing from the state, nobody would be dependent on private landlords (though private landlords could still fill niches like short-time rentals).

As it is though, the social housing sector is woefully underfunded, leading to sometimes decades-long waiting lists (at least where I live, in the Netherlands).

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by username332211 on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:31PM (#39328231)
If we're talking about this sort of solutions, we must nevertheless implement a means to manage demand. After all, it's impossible to house the entire Netherlands in Amsterdam.

In countries where housing was socialized they had a system of residency. You couldn't move to another city, without a permit. If you live in Tholen, you shouldn't be able to move to Amsterdam, unless you mary someone from there or if society determines there's a social need for more workers in the capital.

After all, you can't socialize things while maintaining bourgeois concepts like "freedom of movement". You can't eat the cake and have it too, right?

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by Tijdreiziger on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:55PM (#39328473)
You need to manage the supply, not the demand. As long as enough properties are built in the areas where people want to live, there’s no problem.

Sure, maybe not everyone will be able to live smack in the center of Amsterdam, but there’s enough space in other parts of the city, not to mention nearby places like Amstelveen, Hoofddorp or Almere (which, you will know, house mostly ‘overflow’ from the Amsterdam market).

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by codedokode on Saturday February 10, 2024 @01:33PM (#39328918)
If you want to create a fair system you should also build infrastructure otherwise it is unfair when someone lives near the subway in a historical part of the city and someone has to live near the forest among ugly modern high-rise buildings.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by Jensson on Saturday February 10, 2024 @05:09PM (#39330692)
That is how things are done all over Europe though. The state plans a new suburb by also planning bus stops, roads, subways, trains, parks, shopping malls and schools within walking distance etc. That ensures there are no really bad homes so even the cheap homes are in nice livable areas.

It isn't expensive to build such areas, so there is no reason not to do it except if you want to punish the poor.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bombcar on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:55AM (#39335009)
Almost by definition the cheapest homes will be the “worst” homes so the goal is to make them as less bad as you can.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by jorvi on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:30PM (#39328216)
We also have the clown situation where you are deemed fit to rent for €1200 a month, but the banks won’t give you a €900 a month mortgage for the same sort of housing.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bombcar on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:54PM (#39328472)
The USA often has the opposite problem; people who would be refused rentals at $900 are given loans at $1200, no problem.

The key is which ones insulate the giver (landlord/lender) from non-payment (e.g., which are guaranteed by the government).

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by jorvi on Saturday February 10, 2024 @01:06PM (#39328589)
The problem is that it really adds insult to injury.

In the aforementioned situation, the home owner is both creating equity and saving 25% extra each month.

It creates a very broken situation. But the Dutch government has coddled home owners for four to five decades already. And the real estate market is often zero sum, where advantaging one group disadvantages another.

Time to make home owners bleed for a couple of decades. Balance must be restored.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bbor on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:04PM (#39327919)
> you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex

Why? What value do they provide, other than having a bunch of money upfront? I’d argue there are many, many ways to fund building construction other than for-profit ownership

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by loeg on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:20PM (#39328095)
> What value do they provide, other than having a bunch of money upfront?

Providing capital is useful! You can't just ignore that.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by Scarblac on Saturday February 10, 2024 @12:29PM (#39328208)
Yes, but that's what banks and mortgages are for already.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by loeg on Saturday February 10, 2024 @01:44PM (#39329019)
If that is the only function, why don’t renters buy instead of renting?
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bbor on Saturday February 10, 2024 @08:56PM (#39332008)
Why don’t they issue a loan then, and get paid back with interest? It’s insane that our system, by design, has an underclass that is earning WAY less because they can’t afford the entry price for a home, so all their rent for years and years goes into someone else’s pocket instead of their own equity. IMO
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bombcar on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:58AM (#39335027)
For the same reason the banks won’t lend to the same people. Sure, some renters can qualify for a home loan and choose not to, but not all can.

And it’s much much much easier to eventually evict someone and lose thousands than to try to get loaned money back from someone who is judgement proof, losing hundreds of thousands.

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bbor on Tuesday February 13, 2024 @01:05AM (#39354978)
I’m assuming you’re also not in the business of having long fundamental disagreements on days old posts so I won’t try to convince you, but just so you can see my perspective: I think you’re focusing too much on the microeconomic dynamics in your defense of the system, when we want a macroeconomic overhaul. In other words, at some level socializing that risk to solve this huge inequity.

I think you’d agree that we could fund a national/regional/global system that would provide a sufficient safety net for a system where everyone is paying into some kind of equity for their land. You just don’t agree that it’s worth it / sets the right incentives / a bunch of other reasons I could never think of that I’m sure are sound. But I hope you see why taking the “but everything’s on fire!!!!” macro perspective is appealing in theory :)

Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by austhrow743 on Saturday February 10, 2024 @06:34PM (#39331294)
They provide there being someone to rent from.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by no_wizard on Saturday February 10, 2024 @02:17PM (#39329312)
I always found this funny, because housing is required for all of us but tenants rights is controversial where as all the incentives we give to builders / owners / landlords isn’t questioned nearly the same. Perhaps we should adjust those incentives more instead to align with tenants and occupancy home owners and stop treating everything about housing as investments
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by bombcar on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:56AM (#39335015)
The thirty year fixed mortgage has been a disaster for the housing market.
Re:A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? ... by lazide on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:37PM (#39337878)
Also, the thirty year fixed mortgage has been a boon for the housing market and several generations who 'got in early'.

Just like school loans.

Automobile loans.

Etc.