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Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by coldcode on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:22PM (#39277298)
It's not like the history of working for game companies is unknown, major studios have always done this. Imagining it won't happen to you is wishful thinking. I worked for a small, poor game company once with a FPS MMO and it was probably my funnest job ever, but it paid very little, and I eventually had to leave and make real money again. The best thing was that the player base appreciated every one of us, and constantly thanked us for making things better. You can have that dream job building games, but it's probably not at a big company with big salaries.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by darknavi on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:39PM (#39277589)
I think the gaming industry in general has use the passion that devs have for games as a good excuse to not pay more, which obviously has worked.

> The best thing was that the player base appreciated every one of us, and constantly thanked us for making things better.

I work in games and this is honestly one of my biggest drivers. I of course love the game as well and want to make it better, but community praise is just next level energy for me.

Over the last few years many of us at our studio have been doxxed, threatened, called on our personal phones, etc. and that can really take the wind out of my sails. But when you get some positive or constructive feedback about trying to make the game better it really helps.

Working in games has the opportunity to be such a collaborative process with coworkers and community and it is awesome when it works well.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by Domenic_S on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:00PM (#39277884)
> I think the gaming industry in general has use[d] the passion that devs have for games as a good excuse to not pay more, which obviously has worked.

It's a simple supply/demand calculation. "Game dev" is high on the dream-job list -- "internal framework developer for MegaCo" is not. Game engines have made game dev more accessible than ever, the raw talent pool is bigger than its ever been.

It's a lot like being a professional musician. The hours suck, the environment is usually crap, it spills into your home life all the time... and the pay sucks unless you're the 0.1% (or a business person in the field instead of a performer) but lots and lots of people want to do it and will grind away at being a pro musician, because they're passionate about it.

If there's any set of devs that needs a union or is most like other fields where unionization is beneficial, it's game devs.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by gruez on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @04:14PM (#39280694)
It's a simple supply/demand calculation. "Game dev" is high on the dream-job list -- "internal framework developer for MegaCo" is not. Game engines have made game dev more accessible than ever, the raw talent pool is bigger than its ever been.

Indeed. There's even a term for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensating_differential

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by shaileshm on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:26PM (#39278295)
> "internal framework developer for MegaCo"

NGL, because this is actually my dream job.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by ghaff on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:59PM (#39278845)
A lot of people look for jobs that seem like jobs their friends are going to go "Wow, cool!" In practice those are mostly orthogonal with fairly reliable jobs that pay fairly well and reliably.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by sokoloff on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:28PM (#39277408)
I had a similar experience in the mid-90s. Worked for a small studio with a successful franchise (IndyCar and NASCAR Racing). Shipped a Playstation title and contributed to some of the Mac and PC titles and the nextgen codebase that became Grand Prix Legends. (Much of the founding team of iRacing came from this studio.)

Ultimately, that place was enormously engaging, but I was never going to buy a house and retire on what I was making there, so I left for a better paying gig. Our users really loved the product and eagerly engaged with us. I got several trips to races, including pit and garage access passes, several drivers visited our studio while in town for the NH race, and I learned a ton about both coding and racing.

I'm really glad I did it, but I'm also glad I quit it.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by Arrath on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:14PM (#39278107)
Hey, this will be random but I have happy childhood memories of sitting in my dad's lap as a little one and causing absolute mayhem in first IndyCar and later NASCAR racing. Usually by turning around and playing destruction derby going the wrong way. So, thanks for that!
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by ghaff on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:36PM (#39277526)
It can be fine to do something you enjoy doing for a period even if you know you could be making more. But you also need to periodically checkpoint whether something makes sense for the long term.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by kypro on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:06PM (#39277969)
> It's not like the history of working for game companies is unknown, major studios have always done this. Imagining it won't happen to you is wishful thinking.

I understand this rationally and yet at every job I've worked at I've still felt pretty secure until the moment I've been laid off (which for the record has happened to me 4 times in the last 8 years).

If you're a hard worker and you're providing a lot of value you learn the risk is never that anyone would want to lay you off individually, but that some higher up who has very little care or understanding for who is providing value will decide that you're no longer needed.

It's something that I've only really came to terms with over the last few years – that no amount of effort will save you from layoffs. The only thing that will save you is luck. When I was in my twenties I honestly thought that if I just provide enough value my job would always be safe.

I guess I'm just saying that I understand it from an emotional perspective. Rationally I understand you can go from feeling like the most valuable person in your department to unemployed in 24 hours. But emotionally the fact that this can happen still messes with me.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by ghaff on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:10PM (#39278044)
You can just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If a company decides to cancel a project or reorganize business units, they're probably not going to waste a lot of energy figuring out whether they're laying off (or keeping) exactly the optimal people for the reorganized company or not.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by BlueTemplar on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:24PM (#39278266)
Sounds like the solution is to work in a small enough company that such a "higher up" doesn't exist. But then the risk for the company to go bankrupt (or grow so much they start existing) is also higher. It also seems to be "priced in" by lower pay too ? (The extreme being a 1-2 devs company.)
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by jq-r on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @02:54PM (#39279628)
I guess the company has to be really small. In my <200 company the CEO changed and the new one (despite being here for a year and change) I bet he cannot name 6 engineers in the company. He doesn't care.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by thegrim33 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @05:24PM (#39281635)
Ok? What percentage of workers similar to you have been laid off like you have? Is your experience the minority or the majority? Your personal experience really doesn't mean anything. It absolutely certainly doesn't allow you to make absolutist sweeping statements like "no amount of effort will save you from layoffs. The only thing that will save you is luck".

You've been laid off on average once every 2 years. I've been laid off once in 19 years. Did I just get lucky? Does it really just all come down to luck like you claim? Or is there more that goes into it? Maybe someone could do the math - if everyone had the same "luck" as you, what are the odds that I made it 19 years with only 1 layoff?

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by kypro on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @10:52AM (#39290004)
I wasn't very clear – I wasn't suggesting my experience is typical at all, I was simply stating that I was commenting from the perspective of someone who's experienced a lot of layoffs, and that in my experience you generally don't expect them.

I think there is this idea that under-performers are the ones that lose their jobs in layoffs – or at least that's what I used to think. Yet, despite always being one of the most valuable people in my team, this has never protected me, or the majority of people I've seen who have lost their jobs. That's really my point.

That said, if you are an under-performer you probably will increase your odds of being laid off. I have seen a number of downsizings before where people are cut because they were performing as well as others. So maybe I should have clarified that a bit more, but I would still stand by my overall point that assuming you're not under-performing you're probably not at any increased risk of layoffs vs someone who's outperforming.

And perhaps one final caveat here is that if you are an out-performer and you are laid off you will probably find it easier to find work in the future because at the very least the people you've worked with in the past will want to work with you again.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by nonrandomstring on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:31PM (#39278378)
Is it still the same as circa 2010? Back then games had such a lot of churn due to disaffection. I feel sorry for kids that get into games industry with high expectations. There's the 20/20 rule - only 20% of games make it through production, and only 20% of those ever get marketed and are "successful". So that's another way to say that 96% of games "fail". Because of the long development time it means many entrants are in their 5th or 6th year of a career and have never seen a title they work on be a "hit".
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by diob on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:34PM (#39277498)
Imagining it won't happen to you is simply the human condition, especially younger in life. I can't blame folks.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by rightbyte on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:38PM (#39277570)
People warn you for all sort of stuff. You need some experience to know what is hyperbole and ground truths.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by hamandcheese on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:40PM (#39277601)
Exactly. Just like it's well known that you can get screwed 10 different ways with startup equity, yet here we all are.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:48PM (#39277701)
The common wisdom around here has long been to take the RSUs at MAMAA or whatever liquid compensation at actually profitable businesses until you are financially independent.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by egl2021 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:28PM (#39278341)
Anything that people will do for free is hard to make a living at; think painting and music. Game dev is close.
Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by JohnFen on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:53PM (#39277782)
> It's not like the history of working for game companies is unknown, major studios have always done this. Imagining it won't happen to you is wishful thinking.

Yep. The computer games industry has had a well-deserved reputation for being awful to work in for decades.

Re:'Left high and dry': Confessions of a laid-off gaming ind... by polishdude20 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:45PM (#39277670)
I know someone who works at a big studio and they constantly tell me they get threats and hate messages all the time from die hard fans of the franchise the game is based on.