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Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by BoxFour on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:25PM (#39268092)
What criteria are we using to evaluate this?

If the anecdotes are accurate, and based on your own description, it seems Elon Musk is a CEO who makes an effort to thoroughly grasp the products his company develops. That's commendable. This doesn't necessarily make him even a small-e engineer, even in the context of the broader definitions used today. It certainly doesn't make him "someone of engineering lineage," as the original comment implied was essential for Boeing's success, or even "someone with an engineering background" like the comment I replied to.

It's also certainly not clear that Elon has an engineering-first mindset, nor that that would even be helpful for many of the businesses he runs. I can think of plenty of examples of Elon putting business above all else plenty of times, and I don't mean that as a dig: It's often the smart move for the monetary gain of all involved.

And just to be clear, this not a commentary at all on about whether Elon would be effective in running Boeing. To be blunt: I don't care about that conversation.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by rpmisms on Monday February 05, 2024 @05:56PM (#39268372)
> If the anecdotes are accurate

> It's also certainly not clear that Elon has an engineering-first mindset

If A, then B.

Struggle with definitions all we want, Boeing needs a dose of Musk's attitude towards engineering and manufacturing. It is the most important thing they do, and I don't think the C-suite understands that. That's the most distilled version of what I'm saying. Musk is the best recent example of this attitude, but Henry Ford is an excellent older example.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by BoxFour on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:05PM (#39268456)
> If A, then B

If Elon's thoroughly understands the products his companies develop, he has an engineering-first mindset? That logic would also apply to many CEOs we wouldn't consider "engineering-first" CEOs.

> Struggle with definitions all we want,

For me, this is the only discussion. My focus is not at all on whether Elon would be a good fit for Boeing. I don't give a shit about that conversation.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by rpmisms on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:21PM (#39268584)
I don't want Elon to run Boeing, that's never been part of my argument. I want leadership at Boeing that elevates engineers, understands that engineering is absolutely critical, and punishes bean-counters for pushing against a good engineering culture.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by KerrAvon on Monday February 05, 2024 @08:45PM (#39269757)
Also important for leadership is being a thin-skinned an emerald mine scion who believes in astonishingly racist tropes.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by rpmisms on Monday February 05, 2024 @08:49PM (#39269785)
Personal attacks generally aren't encouraged on HN, even if you don't like the person.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by Dylan16807 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:39AM (#39271161)
We're evaluating a public figure's ability to lead. That's not a personal attack.
Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by rpmisms on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:52AM (#39271233)
> is being a thin-skinned an emerald mine scion who believes in astonishingly racist tropes.

That's a personal attack. Talking about failures of planning in mass manufacturing, backlash due to public statements, and casual behavior about publicly traded companies and information related to them, those would be material criticisms that we can discuss civilly.

The claims of racism and inheriting some amount of money from a debunked emerald mine conspiracy aren't helpful on their own.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by Dylan16807 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:05AM (#39271300)
Racism is relevant for a CEO. Thin-skinned is relevant for a CEO. Whether they inherited wealth is relevant for how you judge their wealth.

> debunked

Kind of? His dad was originally making the claim but is now saying something different.

> conspiracy

You have a weird definition of conspiracy.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by rpmisms on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:14AM (#39271360)
Then make the connection between racism and damages to a company relevant to the discussion, or being thin-skinned and the same.

There is zero evidence that Elon profited off the emerald mine his dad bought shares in, and the allegation is that he conspired to hide that money somehow. It's a normal definition of conspiracy.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by Dylan16807 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @01:20AM (#39271388)
> Then make the connection between racism and damages to a company relevant to the discussion, or being thin-skinned and the same.

They both have obvious consequences in a leadership position. Obvious consequences are enough.

> There is zero evidence that Elon profited off the emerald mine his dad bought shares in, and the allegation is that he conspired to hide that money somehow. It's a normal definition of conspiracy.

1. I have never heard this "hiding money" part of it so I don't think that's the crux of it.

2. "Some guy hid his own money" is not a conspiracy. This is baffling.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by rpmisms on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @03:00AM (#39272006)
> Obvious consequences are enough.

Obvious potential consequences are not enough. This is the richest man in the world, surely you have an example.

Re:Boeing Finds More Misdrilled Holes on 737 in Latest Setback by Dylan16807 on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @12:27PM (#39277386)
What does being rich have to do with it?

It's hard for someone outside a company to point to a direct consequence of racism in the company leadership. That doesn't make it not-bad for the leadership to be racist.

Surely you're not saying it's okay to discriminate as CEO if you make enough money.

And if you want a consequence of being thin-skinned, uh, anything to do with twitter? Half his interactions with the SEC?