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Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jeroenhd on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @05:50AM (#39188588)
Ryzen has been more power friendly than Intel Core for a while now. I don't think consumers care much about eco friendliness, though, which is a shame. I suppose it could always be sold as "doesn't heat up the room as much", but anyone with a dedicated GPU will have a computational space heater sitting next to them regardless these days.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jijijijij on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @08:25AM (#39189812)
In Europe electricity is expensive, though. If you pay 50c€ per kWh, energy efficiency does matter.

Less heat also allows for a more compact or mobile design. Smaller builds are gaining popularity.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:14AM (#39191858)
>Smaller builds are gaining popularity.

Gaining popularity in the ever shrinking market of PCs is nothing to brag about. I'd wager it's still not that popular as you make it be. Everyone just buys laptops nowadays and whoever they do buy PCs they get the full sized towers with discrete GPUs for gaming, not small form factors with APUs. That's more of a niche of a niche.

That's why AMD hasn't focused too much on APUs for desktop PCs. It's not a big market. Their biggest sellers are APUs for notebooks and consoles, CPUs for datacenters and desktops, discrete GPUs for ... everything.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jijijijij on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:32AM (#39192103)
No, you are right. I think this APU is basically a spin-off mobile processor. The technology comparison would be translatable, though, as with laptops battery life and weight matters.

However, here we talk about the desktop market, don't we? And not every desktop PC has to be a gaming capable machine. Power-savings will probably be even more relevant for organizations running hundreds of office machines and terminals.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:41AM (#39192212)
>And not every desktop PC has to be a gaming capable machine.

Yes, but desktop PCs not for gaming aren't really selling volumes nowadays, they're a tiny niche being eaten by notebooks and NUCs (also a niche) which Intel has been dominating as they had CPUs with iGPUs (basically APUs without the marketing) since ... forever.

>Power-savings will probably be even more relevant for organizations running hundreds of office machines and terminals.

When was the last time you saw organizations buy PCs for their workforce? In volume I mean, not just one PC for Bob who needed a CAD workstation, because then Bob most likely isn't getting an APU for CAD but some workstation with discrete CPU and some Quadro GPU.

Organizations mostly transitioned their office machines to notebooks a long time ago, even moreso after WFH became more popular so there was less need of PCs tied to a fixed location. PCs not for gaming or heavy compute workstations aren't big sellers anymore.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jijijijij on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:54AM (#39192410)
In my experience, bureaucracy doesn't run on laptops.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:55AM (#39192435)
On what does it run on?

Yeah, I'm sure governments do buy some amount of desktop PCs because they don't intend for their workforce to work from anywhere else other than a specific office, but you also can't tell me with a straight face that selling PCs to the DMV, FBI and other bureaucrats represents a big lucrative market that was waiting for the APU revolution.

PCs are a low selling niche now. APUs won't move the needle on that, that's why AMD ignored it for so long. End of story.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jijijijij on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:01PM (#39192532)
I think you are moving the goal post a bit.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:08PM (#39192635)
How so? Please enlighten us with your arguments on the matter.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jijijijij on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:15PM (#39192760)
Well for starters the argument wasn't about economics, but who would value a power efficient processor like this.

Scroll up, enlighten yourself.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:39PM (#39193081)
Economics matter. People can value a lot of things, but if there's too few of them, then the market won't bother catering to them. See small smartphones.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by jijijijij on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @01:15PM (#39193571)
Sure, but maybe this objection to the original argument shouldn't come as a moving goal post, don't you think?

Cause moving goal posts are lame and exhausting. End of story.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by pie420 on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @04:43PM (#39196285)
they 100% do. what company or government agency have you ever seen running on desktops that isnt the DMV?
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by Scrutiny6707 on Saturday February 03, 2024 @09:41AM (#39240734)
It's been an "ever shrinking market" since the 2000s, if you believe the news.

A thing to consider is, for the consumer market, machines have gotten good enough that most don't need a new machine for 5+ years, in terms of performance. Especially for casual household tasks.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by DanielHB on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @10:12AM (#39190989)
True, I actually have been underclocking my RTX 3800 to keep heat and costs down.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by distances on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @07:25AM (#39189283)
Maybe not everyone but I definitely care. Lower consumption means smaller PSU and cooling requirements and less issues during heatwaves (no AC). Futhermore, my computer corner with a fair bit of electronics is served by only one electricity socket with a bunch of extensions cords that I really would rather not overload.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by Semaphor on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:53AM (#39192387)
Yeah, my gaming (obviously I'm not playing AAA action games) PC runs on a 350W PSU and is rarely audible.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by nl on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @07:25AM (#39189284)
> I don't think consumers care much about eco friendliness, though, which is a shame.

Many do care about noise though!

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by smallstepforman on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @07:28AM (#39189316)
I do care about fan noise, my current system was specifically built for it (ryzen 3700x, rx5600 gpu)
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by tiahura on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @09:37AM (#39190562)
Why don’t more people put their pc in another room or floor? Even Amazon $20 HDMI cables are pretty resilient at 50’.

Stuck my gaming PC in the basement decades ago and haven’t worried about cooling or noise since.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by twisteriffic on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @10:06AM (#39190909)
Most people don't have another room or floor to put it in?
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by FirmwareBurner on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @12:07PM (#39192622)
Why don't people just buy bigger houses with more rooms, d'uh? /s
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by iamthepieman on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @07:18AM (#39189224)
For mobile processors, it's one of the first things I look at though. And like you and others said I don't just look at the TDP but also rely on the big testing sites for load heat tests.

Or, at least, I did until the m series processors came out and you could get a passively cooled laptop for a decent price.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by secondcoming on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @05:56AM (#39188614)
I think that yes they're more power friendly when doing work, but consume more power at idle than Intel CPUs. At least that used be the case, don't know if that's still the case.

As for eco-friendliness... it's something I now consider when buying electronics but more from an electricity bill point of view.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by Dalewyn on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @06:40AM (#39188927)
Intel is very likely still the IdleM@ster[1][2].

Also, most CPUs spend most of their time idling or very low load, not belching hellfire upon the scorched earth. Efficiency at idle/low power is far more significant than efficiency at flame belching if power consumption over time is concerned.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823514

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38829531

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by Retric on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @07:23AM (#39189262)
Idle power consumption is all over the place with AMD taking the lowest and highest spots on this chart: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/10evt0z/ryzen_vs_intel...

Who wins depends on both the system and how it’s used.

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by magicalhippo on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @10:43AM (#39191391)
I recall this blog post[1], discussed here[2] at the time, discussing how a SATA chip driver prevented the CPU from going to sleep state C6, instead keeping it at C3, leading to higher power consumption.

Switching the SATA card to one with a different chip fixed that.

There were other surprising factors which affected power draw.

My takeaway was that as in real life, sleeping can be hard.

[1]: https://mattgadient.com/7-watts-idle-on-intel-12th-13th-gen-...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823514

Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by Dalewyn on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @02:41PM (#39194672)
In fact, you linked the exact thing I linked. :P
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by magicalhippo on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @03:02PM (#39194935)
Oh lol. Opened the links in new tab but didn't read before commenting, classic n00b fail. The "visited" look didn't phase me since I had, as mentioned, read it here before.
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by mihalycsaba on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @06:58AM (#39189078)
How big is the difference on a regular setup? And is it a same kind of cpu, with integrated graphics? One of the example you linked says 7 watt, which is impressive, but I think you could achieve similar optimizations on an amd system. Let's say I install windows or some linux desktop and don't do any optimizations, how big is the difference?
Re:Ryzen 8000G review: An integrated GPU that can beat a gra... by wtallis on Tuesday January 30, 2024 @11:59AM (#39192499)
Most of AMD's desktop processors for the past several generations have had poor idle power because they're built using multiple chiplets with a cheap, power-hungry interconnect. The 8000G series (and earlier -G parts) are monolithic laptop processors re-packaged for the desktop socket, so they are unaffected by the main cause of poor idle power in AMD's main desktop processor product line.