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Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Thri4895o on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:26AM (#39140115)
The paper defines "risky play" as something kids decide to do, by their own choice. Like climbing a tree and breaking a leg from a fall.

But most danger outdoor is from external factors, that kids do not control! Like "friendly" pitbulls freely roaming streets without any checks and restrictions! Or from crazy people who should be locked up!

And there are not many outdoor places suitable for kids. Every public park turned into dog toilet!

Blaming preference for indoor on some sort of choice is hypocritical!

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by mlsu on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:40AM (#39140186)
THE biggest danger to children is cars. Not pit bulls or crazy people. Gigantic cars that are so big that the driver cannot see out of them in front of their own bumper.

Everything else is not really worth the effort in comparison.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Thri4895o on Friday January 26, 2024 @05:17AM (#39140923)
Cars are not allowed in parks or cafes. And people do not remove safety gear (like breaks) from cars!
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by nicepplonly on Friday January 26, 2024 @08:38AM (#39142454)
I live in New York City where it's not unusual to see cars going places they're not allowed, including parks. The problem is not the ruleset, it's the fact that automobile operators don't comply with the rules and nobody enforces them. Every day I see an automobile on a sidewalk or driving through the blocked off sections of the park I live next to in order to bypass traffic.

Cars are weapons and should be severely limited on public roads, especially in terms of speed (all cars should have speed governors).

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by mlrtime on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:04AM (#39142678)
NYC is not an example of a place to raise a family. There are so many things that make it very inconvenient for families it is exactly why people tend to move out.

Of course it can be done and happens every day. But it is a horrible example for anything family related.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by nicepplonly on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:36AM (#39143061)
NYC is the greatest place to raise children IMO. The best of everything: you can live car-free, high density of opportunities, educational services, activities, art, culture, etc.

EDIT: Okay, arguably some places like maybe the Netherlands (which has excellent anti-car infra) are better, but I've seen it all at this point and I am convinced NYC is still the best, even though there are too many cars and too much surface area is dedicated to cars.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Kim_Bruning on Friday January 26, 2024 @12:07PM (#39144948)
I agree that there's many nice spots in NYC.

Note: The infrastructure in the Netherlands is not anti-car. It's not an xor thing!

Pedestrians, Bikes, Trains, Ships, and Cars. The Netherlands gives a lot of love to infrastructure for all modes of mobility.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by nicepplonly on Friday January 26, 2024 @04:13PM (#39148478)
If you took the average American and airdropped them into Amsterdam with an F-150, they would probably think it's very anti-car :)
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Kim_Bruning on Friday January 26, 2024 @06:16PM (#39150187)
Eh, that's a pretty big vehicle. Does that still actually count as a _car_? ;-) It's fine for regular European or Japanese vehicles, of course.

But... people do drive American trucks like that out in the countryside as utility vehicles. Where there's a bit of room to maneuver, it can be done.

And of course, outside Amsterdam city center: you've got all-paved-roads even in the countryside (well maintained with few potholes), reasonable speed limits, highways that stay dry even when it rains, traffic lights that let you through the moment they see you coming (at an empty intersection at least), traffic jam detector systems, highway entrances and exits that you can take on cruise control -as opposed to trying to kill you- (I'm looking at you, Germany ;-) ), and much much more!

* ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k "The Best Country in the World for Drivers" )

* https://youtu.be/SDXB0CY2tSQ?t=437 (business parks... people in the comments were kind of riled up about this particular traffic light. Would work fine with an F150 ;-) )

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by nicepplonly on Friday January 26, 2024 @06:28PM (#39150323)
> Eh, that's a pretty big vehicle. Does that still actually count as a _car_?

The 2 best selling vehicle models in the USA are the Ford F-series and Chevy equivalent (Silverado), according to some sources[1][2]. I agree they're absurd for what are effectively overpowered wheelchairs that make you fat and reduce your IQ[3], but it is what it is.

[1]: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars...

[2]: https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/

[3]: https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/air-pollution-li...

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by mlrtime on Saturday January 27, 2024 @08:04AM (#39155187)
You should try getting out of NYC and understand how the rest of the country actually works. Try visiting Nebraska or Ohio and learn where your food comes from. Ask one of the multi generational farmers who drive a truck and ask about their IQ.

Thoughts and posts like yours are why conservative popularity is increasing, why so hostile?

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by nicepplonly on Saturday January 27, 2024 @09:43AM (#39155939)
90% of the people who salivate over these giant death machines aren't using them for hauling goods or farm work. Where I grew up, people get very excited about owning pickup trucks because they view them as status symbols (bigger is better mentality). Thankfully I escaped that terrible culture, but NYC still has too many unnecessary cars.
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by mlrtime on Saturday January 27, 2024 @11:17AM (#39156752)
>90% of the people who salivate over these giant death machines aren't using them for hauling goods or farm work.

Sorry for being blunt, but where you grew up brainwashed you. Or you are young and very naive or like to speak in hyperbole.

The most sold vehicle in the US is being used for work purposes and has been since the truck was invented. There are many people that drive trucks outside of work, but you are very misinformed.

I lived in NYC for 20+ years without a car. On a hot summer night walking close to Holland tunnel brought rage to me as well. Hopefully the much needed congestion pricing will help.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by mlrtime on Saturday January 27, 2024 @08:01AM (#39155172)
An F-150 is not a car. And while it is the most sold vehicles ever it is mostly used for work purposes.
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by jjav on Friday January 26, 2024 @05:43PM (#39149814)
> Cars are weapons

Cars are obviously not weapons, they are vehicles. The definition of weapon is something which primary use case is to kill or maim. The primary use case of a car is transportation.

Do you say that a pencil is a weapon? You could stab yourself by accident with a pencil.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by nicepplonly on Saturday January 27, 2024 @09:48AM (#39156000)
If you use a pencil to stab someone, yes it's a weapon. If I use a shovel to kill someone, it's a weapon. If I use a pillow to suffocate someone, it's a weapon. If I drive a car into a person and kill them because I don't feel like following the rules, yes it's a weapon.

Cars not only have the direct immediate effect as weapons (i.e., using them to drive into/over people), but they also have significant second and third order effects such as the pollution from emissions, tires, production and supply chains, destruction of the environment from road construction, cement production emissions, and so on and so forth. There are also the health effects of people forgetting how to use their bodies to move themselves, being isolated inside an insulated box such that nobody interacts with those around them, which leads people to be hostile, aggressive, violent, and so on.

Cars are weapons and they're killing us.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Toorkit on Friday January 26, 2024 @09:28AM (#39142962)
All the way back in kindergarten, we went on walks to places and us kids, ages 4-6, were taught how to navigate safely. Stay on the sidewalk, wait for the green light. Look left, right, left again (unless you're in the UK. I guess...)

Under these conditions, I don't understand why it matters how big the car is. Teach your children not to cross the road.

I spent hours roaming the streets on my bike as a kid in Germany, now I hear my coworkers saying things like "I don't leave my 10 year old unsupervised for more than 10 minutes. If I have to go somewhere, he's coming with me."

It leaves me flabbergasted.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by dllthomas on Friday January 26, 2024 @12:38PM (#39145333)
> Under these conditions, I don't understand why it matters how big the car is. Teach your children not to cross the road.

Cars cross the sidewalk.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by bequanna on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:58AM (#39144852)
I don't know if you're right or wrong about this but do you have some kind of statistics to back this up?

To me, your claim rings somewhat false. I can think of many children that had injuries of all kinds but only know of one who was hit by a car--a car that was a small sedan and didn't have any issue seeing the pedestrian because it was "too tall".

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by atoav on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:54AM (#39140276)
How often in your life were you really threatened by crazy people or pitbulls?

As a kid that played without parental oversight we met every crazy person and every dog in town. This is still quite normal in the area I grew up in and I have never heard from anybody ever being seriously hurt by a dog or a crazy person in our area. Avoiding dangerous situations is something kids have to learn, and kids are not stupid. It is much more common that kids are too afraid than kids not having respect in the presence of a noticed danger.

That being said, many places in the US are downright kid-hostile, often because a failure to deal with social, economic, mental problems adequately or have good spacing concepts where people outside of cars count something.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Thri4895o on Friday January 26, 2024 @04:54AM (#39140699)
> really threatened by crazy people or pitbulls

A few times per week. Many people here have aggressive dogs and zero control over them.

Dog bite is a serous injury that requires hospital visit and painful antibiotics for several days. Saying anything else is a bs!

> Avoiding dangerous situations is something kids have to learn, and kids are not stupid

You can not avoid dogs! They are everywhere, are larger, faster and with zero responsibility! There is adult who owns the dog! Putting blame and responsibility on kids is foolish! Staying indoor is only logical solution!

> are too afraid

... Kid provoked the dog attack by being afraid... My favorite excuse.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by CogitoCogito on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:39AM (#39144619)
Where did you grow up?
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by funcDropShadow on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:23PM (#39147722)
> Staying indoor is only logical solution!

Kids need to go outdoors on their own to grow up. They need to extend the radius in which they be active on their own. You can't lock kids until they go to college or university. Otherwise they become young adults unfit to live an independent live.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Thri4895o on Friday January 26, 2024 @04:43PM (#39148914)
Did you read my comments? Kids are staying at home voluntary, because they are shit scared of dogs and crazies!!

I am not going to force my kid outside, if it has panic attacks from neighbours pitbulls!

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by jjav on Friday January 26, 2024 @05:48PM (#39149875)
> Kids are staying at home voluntary, because they are shit scared of dogs and crazies!!

What city do you live in?

Never seen or heard of such a place, but I'm not going to pretend to know every city in the world, so very curious to know where the town is overrun by dogs and crazy people running after you (if nothing else, so I don't visit).

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by IanCal on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:51AM (#39140256)
My children are drastically more likely to hurt themselves launching off of furniture or a tree than being attacked by a crazy person.

> Every public park turned into dog toilet!

Yeah this one I get, so many spaces are not friendly for play because there's dog shit around.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by baq on Friday January 26, 2024 @05:07AM (#39140816)
there always was dog shit around, at least where I grew up.

what there wasn't: computers, consoles, smartphones and sooo many cars. in my old neighbourhood places I used to roam around have all been taken over by parked cars.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Thri4895o on Friday January 26, 2024 @05:16AM (#39140914)
It is all very recent. Many people got dogs while staying at home.

After covid there are like 3x more dogs. Several people own multiple dogs, even in small flats. Dog bans are no longer enforced. And zero training!

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by herbst on Friday January 26, 2024 @05:16AM (#39140913)
Most civilized countries got their shit together and found rules with hefty fees to avoid this issue. See Italy who even DNA tests shit to fee the owners.

In most of Europe you don't find shit like this anymore, gladly. When I was young it was still common (yet nothing that stopped us from playing outside)

Writing this from France where literally nobody cares about dog shit, still.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by dagw on Friday January 26, 2024 @10:55AM (#39144071)
so many spaces are not friendly for play because there's dog shit around.

I don't know which country you're in, but certainly where I live people have gotten a lot better at picking up after their dogs since I was a kid. Growing up people let their dogs shit wherever and basically never picked it up. Today virtually everybody picks up after dogs.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by IanCal on Friday January 26, 2024 @01:10PM (#39145781)
I can't tell here whether it's true or not but many complain about it getting worse around COVID. I moved during it so it's hard to tell but it's pretty bad. It's annoying to always have to look at the pavement while walking around.

I remember this being somewhat of an issue as a kid in the same area but it's hard to gauge how it's changed because I was a kid then and a parent now.

I'm in the NW in the UK.

Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by eutectic on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:33AM (#39140146)
I think you need to recalibrate your perceptions; the world (including the US) is about as safe as it's ever been. And I don't think hypocritical is the right choice of word anyway.
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by Thri4895o on Friday January 26, 2024 @04:57AM (#39140725)
Statistics are not going to save me. Murderous beast that attacks people on sight, would get put down immediately a few decades ago!
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by barbazoo on Friday January 26, 2024 @01:22PM (#39145966)
Where do you live that there are "Murderous beast that attacks people on sight" roaming the streets.
Re:Balancing Outdoor Risky Play and Injury Prevention in Chi... by techdmn on Friday January 26, 2024 @11:06AM (#39144211)
This varies a lot from area to area, but I agree that dogs can be a serious problem. I went hiking in Montana last year, and saw a LOT of dogs on the trails that were not leashed. They were well trained, not aggressive and minded their own business. In contrast, a lot of dog owners near me have zero control of their dogs, and don't seem to understand that they have any responsibility. I have had numerous run ins on the street or in public parks where I end up standing between my kids and an aggressive, unleashed, uncontrolled dog. Its owners call to it pitifully from twenty yards away while it tries to dodge around me to eat one of my kids. I've always dismissed the concealed-carry set as a bunch of LARPers, but man, this shit is out of control.